Game Mechanics: High End Zones/Mobs -- Trakanon etc (Assist/Aggro Radius)

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For the rest of the bug report/questions, I look forward to seeing the results. Definitely willing to fix raid encounters lacking difficulty.

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Plane of Fear is definitely a zone which needs npcs to aggro regardless of line of sight. I occasionally bump another thread where I'm trying to develop a general rule for zones which need this change.



For the rest of the bug report/questions, I look forward to seeing the results. Definitely willing to fix raid encounters lacking difficulty.

I'm curious to know why Treats and Nilbog think that terrain didn't block line of sight agro in classic on mobs in fear or any other outside zone?

The game mechanics of the terrain should not change. Hills have always blocked line of sight agro. The little houses (fiends, boogeys, fingers) and walls (not double walls) should not block line of sight agro. The stairs where the tormentors are probably shouldnt block, but the giant firewall around the temple for sure blocked line of sight I guess because it is considered a double wall.

edit: if you thought mobs in fear agro'd thru hills on live, it was more likely because something invis had agroed you from further away and the assist agro caused mobs to agro from behind a hill. Lower level pullers also caused larger agro radius. If you were to consider any agro changes, perhaps increasing the agro range for the mobs, but not eliminating solid terrain bloacking line of sight.

[Treats]

Line of Sight aggro and an NPC having Line of Sight to cast or land a spell are basically one in the same. If the NPC cannot see you to aggro it also cannot cast a spell to land on you.

A prime example of this is Western Wastes in Velious. If terrain did block Line of Sight you could easily hide behind several of the extensions of the canyon walls to fight dragons and prevent AE's. This was not the case as the dragons were fought out in the open, you could not hide.

Fear was very difficult to break back in the days of Classic/Kunark/Velious. This is chronicled by the number of horror stories of people losing gear/levels etc. If terrain would have been blocking line of sight a fear CR would have been a joke to recover from. Zone in, harmony shit, and rez. Way too easy.

Some things that I think would help the server in terms of difficulty:

* Trakanon Light of Sight anywhere in Lair

* A bit higher aggro range scaling with NPC level (61+ huge)

* Terrain blocking Line of Sight in Outdoor Zones removed

* VP dragons increased aggro radius (this might allready be the case?)

* Feign Death/Sneak unable to instantly clear aggro if the NPC's back is turned


* Another huge thing would be the addition of NPCs adding players to the hate list.

When this is added you will no longer have people kiting NPCs and creating clusterfucks in zones where they are trying to kill a Raid NPC the fastest. On live this tactic was hardly ever used. The reason was not because the players did not think of it. It was because training shit around other raids was called a Zone disruption.

Every single player that got into the aggro range of an NPC that was being trained around was added to the hate list on every single mob in the train. Someone on that list sits and you were screwed. Someone on that list gets healed, you're screwed because all mobs are going to that healer. Someone happens to get closer to the mobs than the kiter, you're screwed again. This tactic is complete garbage and should be a Zone Disruption when it occurs.

One last thing in reference to Cazic Thule in Plane of Fear to prevent this sort of thing from happening.

* When CT is aggroed deem each player added to his hate list a slight margin of hate higher than initial aggro on a train that is being kited (It could already work this way?)

This would be to prevent kiting the mobs around the zone so they cannot directly run to Cazic.

Example:

Bard kiting everything around while guild prepares to engage
Guild engages CT
Each mob in the kite is instantly given higher hate to the players attacking CT therefore leaving the bard and running to assist him

Note -- This won't really be possible once Fear is revamped. There won't be anyone kiting anything when Cazic has 400k hp and is a beast.

I know there isn't really any proof for much of this.

Taking a look at the Server's relative ease and numerous RNF threads relating to this kind of speaks for itself.

[Metallikus]

your prime example is flawed. everyone remembers being able to maneuver around the corner past Sontalak to get into TOV. Some people probly remember hanging out at the pirate boat before creeping up the hill to jump on that stationary dragon.

If the temple wall or hill didnt block line of sight for agro then none of that would have worked....Also, ducking around hill tops was always good for avoiding agro via line of sight from the roaming dragons.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your prime example is flawed. everyone remembers being able to maneuver around the corner past Sontalak to get into TOV. Some people probly remember hanging out at the pirate boat before creeping up the hill to jump on that stationary dragon.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Sontalak sits right in the middle of the entrance to ToV.

To get into ToV you either had to:

1 -- Train Sontalak out into the valley to run past

2 -- Have a mage at the ToV zone in to CoH

3 -- Harmony Sontalak but I'm not sure if it was possible back then to get in range before aggro

[Metallikus]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Sontalak sits right in the middle of the entrance to ToV.

To get into ToV you either had to:

1 -- Train Sontalak out into the valley to run past

2 -- Have a mage at the ToV zone in to CoH

3 -- Harmony Sontalak but I'm not sure if it was possible back then to get in range before aggro

the reason u could harmony him is because he didnt arbitrarily see thru mountain walls