Game Mechanics: Mellee miss rate seems excessively high.

[km2783]

That thread is from 2006 and there is a possibility things have changed.

Also, Cuclain is just another Joe Forum posting that bit about melee. Not exactly the best/most official source of info. It's just as baseless and unproven as anything else in this thread.

What's HILARIOUS is a few posts down someone is even questioning him. Plus, Cuclain also said that ATK determines how much you hit for up to max damage, not how often you hit, and that level wasn't a factor here, so that doesn't really explain all the low damage hits as "broken". It just says that being low means you have a lower ATK rating, thus lower than max damage hits more often.

[Desert]

Originally Posted by Ruinous [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I absolutely think so. Why should a level 5 fighting a level 1 not have close to the same hit/miss chance as a level 20 fighting a level 15? It's all relative to your level and weapon skill vs. the defense of the mob, which more often than not, is determined by LEVEL. I didn't say that I think a level 5 fighting a level 1 should hit as hard and for their max as often as a level 20 fighting a level 15. Clearly their stats and ATK primarily would dictate a higher percentage to land full hits. But in regards to hit/miss, YES, that's how it should be working.

What was the point of having a "CONSIDERATION" system if it means nothing in regards to the difficulty of the encounter if your skills are too gimp at low levels to land hits?

For certain classes solo'ing, such as Warrior in the OP's case, Everything is an Undercon.

The consider system is a guideline, it's level based and nothing more. Is X mob Lower or Higher level than me, and by How much? That's all. It doesn't take into account what class you are or the ease at which Your class can solo a DB.

[Ruinous]

Someone questioned him, and again someone backed him up to confirm that this is how it works. Even in the face of answers you're too set about your ways to consider that you are incorrect. I'm perfectly willing to accept facts that disprove what we're claiming here, yet these replies are fruitless and full of insults. The only attempt to provide evidence otherwise was from President, and despite him being jackassy with how he went about confronting us on the matter, I give him credit for it. However the screenshots he gave prove exactly what we're fighting here... whether weapon skill/offense is the strict deciding factor of hit/miss chances - in which case MY stance is that it should not be.

I don't intend to argue the matter further with any regular players here. It takes very little intelligence to consider that while a low level 5 sucks with his weapon, it is adequate to fight a low level 1 who sucks even worse at avoiding being hit with it.

I shall continue to research the subject and provide more evidence for devs to consider. In the meantime, I encourage everyone else that seems hellbent on screaming that this system is "working as intended" as per live to provide their own proof.

[Desert]

Do you even understand why the level 5 fighting a level 1 has less chance to hit than a level 20 fighting a level 15? Or, shit, even a level 12 fighting a level 5. Because it's not only the level spread and character level that matters, but the weapon skill as well. come on man... really? You're arguing a level 5 with 25 skill vs a level 20 with 100 skill. That's hardly a fair comparison.

As your skill goes up, you have more of a chance to hit an even con. If your skill is low, you have LESS chance to hit an even con. Why is this such a fucked up concept for some of you people? This is how it's always been on live, and if you stop and think about it for a second, it makes sense! Consider that this game was inspired by d&d, why not make characters with low weapon skill, like... you know... Suck?

I stand by my prediction that the people bitching about this "issue" are Either A. Low level/Low skill, B. Played entirely too much wow, or C. Playing retardedly.

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The true irony of this 17 page thread, is the dev that would be able to help you is Haynar, on the first page.

This doesn't fall into content, so I don't have fixes for you. For the source developers reading this though.. they will have a hard time finding what they need to fix.

Isn't that ironic.

My point on page one, was that someone who is just starting on the server, starts screaming that everything is screwed up, does not necessarily know much. And does not know how to get issues addressed here.

I have looked closely at melee hit rates, with old parses. You want the truth? They are a bit off. From the data I had, melee are hitting about 2-3% too much. The real problem is the mitigation rates are off. And if this was a trivial fix, I would have had it all figured out in the 4 attempts I have made to code an all encompassing fix for mitigation.

I am going to try to push my patch out for how AC is calculated this weekend. Going to a softcap based formula, the same as classic was at the time. Using the same class modifiers and everything, based on best estimates. Warriors should get a nice boost. If the mitigation tables aren't off too far. Unfortuantely the way the mob stats are in the database, the mitigation shouldn't be the same for mobs, and PCs. So I have about 3 formulas I have been testing.

I have spent many many hours parsing data. And the fact that live, is not like classic, makes additional adjustments necessary to account for those differences.

Some of the bigger problems, even with classic data, there were parses at max level, versus certain mobs. No one did a shit load of parses at level 12, to see how they do against a level 5 mob. So you can scream all you want at the wind, these parses from 10 years ago, will not be crapped out of anywhere.

And ask around. Bitching more, about something, unless it is so horribly broke, that it makes the server unplayable (I have about 700 people who say otherwise, to the 10 who say it is), will get you put on the back burner.

You have a fix?

Code it up. Submit it.

You have parses?

Fit the data, plot mitigation tables. Adjust them to the mob stats in the normal PEQ database. Adjust them to the EMU equations for calculating melee stats and miss rates.

I finished my finals last week, in both of my classes. I am working on my masters in nuclear engineering. I work 40-50 hours a week as a nuclear physicist. I have a 6 month old baby here in the house, who is way more fun to listen to, than some lard ass living in his mother's basement, about how they cannot solo to 50 with their warrior in one week.

Melee are still in a work in progress.

Get over yourself. I don't work for you. I am a volunteer on this project, and help as much as I can. The company I work for bills me out at $165.00 per hour, and I have people lining up for me to solve problems for them. So if you want to have a bitch fest? Knock yourself out. I will not be listening.

If you want to start some parses, and doing some comparisons, then more help is welcome.

The last time, we put some changes to test, and asked for people to get on and help and test, there was little to no help.

I want to work on melee more this weekend. But if I get ticked off at it more, because equations break down, I will probably go off looking for a way to break bards again.

Haynar

[YendorLootmonkey]

I think what the OP is asking is if:

The comparative levels of the mob and the player are being accounted for in the equation. Only someone who has visibility to the equation would know if that were in fact true. And this is one of the most fundamental, game-changing equations in the code, so hopefully everyone understands Haynar's reluctance to go in and adjust it any more unless we have rock-solid data/analysis behind our suppositions.

Based on some Google research I have done due to this thread over the last day or so, what I actually think is "supposed" to happen is that because each mob has a base AC which is at least somewhat if not mostly dependent on level, this would be the part that is taken into account (on both the mitigation and the avoidance components of AC) which would address the OP's concerns about hit frequency (which is dependent on the mob's avoidance component) and hit damage (which is dependent on the mob's mitigation component).

This thread seems to indicate the EQEmu code, as-is, has a melee equation and an AC equation that are useless, which probably prompted the first big melee fix on this server that Haynar went through months ago.

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11082

For the OP and his group, here's a fairly detailed thread where some EQEmu devs attempt to reverse engineer the melee equation. I just don't know how much is changed on P1999 due to the first melee fix and where it stands now:

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6733

Having said all that, the major point here is that Haynar's right, back in the day, no one spent a whole lot of time parsing damage from a level 12 on level 5 mobs, so that data most likely does not exist, and would have to be extrapolated from what happens at higher levels, knowing there's damage caps until 10 and 20, and damage bonuses starting at 28. That's the crux of the problem with attempting to determine if there is indeed an issue based on quantifiable fact, or just an observation based on memories of 10 years ago on equations Sony/Verant never let anyone have their hands on.

[Zordana]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just the village idiot who asks dumb questions.

i read it late but i lol'd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Ruinous]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

some lard ass living in his mother's basement

Why so serious?

Honestly, I don't think that anyone here was bitching at devs, much less you in specific Haynar. We were too busy flaming each other. So why get personal over it? I'm so very happy for your real life success but I don't see how that relates to the situation here.

You could have gave an explanation right at the beginning and saved probably 17 pages worth of posting rather than taken the stance that someone who was new to the server couldn't make personal observations and form their own opinions on something.

I'll keep my mouth shut and enjoy the free ride if the dev's themselves don't have the patience to deal with criticism and go further to lash out at the people that play here.

Thanks!
-Ruinous

[ryuut1]

get faster weapons.

also, filter out misses.

you'll feel much better!

[girth]

I'll keep my mouth shut and enjoy the free ride if the dev's themselves don't have the patience to deal with criticism and go further to lash out at the people that play here.

That is not exactly keeping your mouth shut. How can you even say anything after his post? He hit every single corner of this topic that could have been hit, he told you about its past, its present, and its possible future. Stop spewing your bullshit. Haynar is the fucking man and this server would not have over 500 people ever if not for his work up to this point.

He didn't even lash out you stupid fuck. If you want to see lashing out let me know, you piss me off.