Raid Petitions / GM CS

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by Amelinda [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ALL parties involved need to be more responsible about their own actions and need to behave more in the way they would like to be treated than "what will the rules let me get away with"

...snip...

It's a vicious nasty cycle. People are blaming entire guilds for the douchey actions of a few people.

...snip...

If people would grow up and let things go then there wouldn't be quite so much douchebaggery floating around the server :P

I think I've been saying the same stuff for a while now myself. Noone really cares, the only thing that matters is their pixels. They'll continue to be grown man-children until the server dies.

I don't know why the GMs bother anymore, and I'm amazed you guys still try. More power to you - I would've thrown in the towel by this point (in response to the raid stuff that is, I'd continue helping the rest of the server).

I've long wondered what the GMs could do to end it. If you guys just stopped paying attention altogether, it'd turn into a griefing trainfest (even more-so than it is currently). If you just started banning both involved parties, then opposing guilds would intentionally start things even if they were clearly no able to handle a mob (in a "if I can't get it, noone can" move). The only thing I can think of that'd work would be to get rid of variance, and introduce a GM enforced rotation. If mob isn't down by X time, then it's FFA, and whoever has the KS group wins.

[falkun]

Bruman, I cannot agree with you that its all about pixels. I'm a bard, besides an instrument*, I don't need raid loot. I enjoy the chase, the kill, the game of it.

We all know the best game is a fair game. For instance, the NFL with salary caps is much better than MLB with lol-salary caps. The game as a whole is better due to being "more fair". So its sad to see "the other team" win via less-than-fair tactics. For all the times "the other team" has outmobilized "my team", pulled faster, pulled cleaner, whatever, I congratulate them. It provides me a reason to hone my own skills so that I may rise to the challenge. For all the times the "other team" has purposely trained "my team", KSed, or whatever, the game has become less fun. Likewise, for any times "my team" has purposely trained, KSed, or whatever, I feel the reputation of "my team" has been tarnished with respect to the game, disregarding the reputation of the "other team" the action was done to.

* Note: Even instrument upgrades are marginal, cheap ass instruments offer 80+% of the effectiveness of their more powerful brethren for much less effort. Also, if you want to make the dragon scales argument for epics, remember that Trak guts aren't dropping yet, so that point is moot.

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bruman, I cannot agree with you that its all about pixels. I'm a bard, besides an instrument*, I don't need raid loot. I enjoy the chase, the kill, the game of it.

Maybe for you, but that's still not the majority's case. I don't disagree that many people enjoy it for the race, but if that was the real case, then the GMs wouldn't be busy. People don't petition to the GMs over "they killed our mob", it's "they kill our mob and we want the loot".

At the end of the day, if it wasn't just about the loot, then the GM petitions would be almost nil. The mob would die, then the loot would rot.

It's about pixels.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Amelinda

The intentional griefing of each other in all aspects is just ridiculous. can't tell you how many times i get petitions from all sides that aren't petitioning individuals. "TMO just took my pawbuster" "IB Is here ksing me in Droga" "VD is trying to steal my AC Spawn" "BDA is stealing my Fungus king camp" "Divinity is here boxing"

Usually, it's more along the lines of "we were at king with two people and wiped/gated/AfkForLattes and now BDA is moving into the camp and we want it back"

Just saying. /derail

[Zapatos]

The response is much appreciated, Amelinda!

[Splorf22]

Thanks for answering Amelinda.

I know I had this chat with you earlier and that there are some problems with the idea, but I really think we need to implement something where the raid mob shouts to the zone when he gets aggro, and when he's cleared. It's not perfect. It doesn't control kiting or things like that (I guess TMO intended to port back to the zone in, have darkdeath FD/hide/stand up to single pull inny there?) but at least its a huge step in the right direction. The problem we have right now is that encounters are judged on a metric we as players cannot observe.

Also I did a thread earlier and the overwhelming support was for some random server reboots every few weeks. Its 100% classic, adds a few more items to the game, and plus server reboot days are the most fun ever. Legit bragging rights imo.

[Nlaar]

Originally Posted by Zapatos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The response is much appreciated, Amelinda!

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also I did a thread earlier and the overwhelming support was for some random server reboots every few weeks. Its 100% classic, adds a few more items to the game, and plus server reboot days are the most fun ever. Legit bragging rights imo.

I think there'd be more support for an actual patch every once in a while than a random "simulated" server reboot every few weeks. My point is that someone like Rogean would probably need to manually do it every time, and if he doesn't have time to patch the server, I doubt he has time to do that. Not saying it's necessarily a bad idea though! Whenever all mobs popped at once, rare as it happened, I thought it was way more fun and meritocratic and actually did rely on mobilization. Anyone calling it "mobilization" when a mob spawns at 2AM and your mains are already afk/camped near their room is just being silly.

I know I had this chat with you earlier and that there are some problems with the idea, but I really think we need to implement something where the raid mob shouts to the zone when he gets aggro, and when he's cleared. It's not perfect. It doesn't control kiting or things like that (I guess TMO intended to port back to the zone in, have darkdeath FD/hide/stand up to single pull inny there?) but at least its a huge step in the right direction. The problem we have right now is that encounters are judged on a metric we as players cannot observe.

Instead of FTE it should really be "first to damage to the point where it starts summoning". In cases where that's really unclear it should just be awarded to whoever's group gets the experience. I don't think there is anything meritocratic about engaging something 0.001 seconds before another guild, but there is merit involved in doing it 5 seconds before, or even a minute before. Note that I'm not supporting KSing - if guild A engages Inny, is having trouble, has him down to 20% but all their DPS is dead (somehow), and they could still plausibly win, then it's not okay for guild B to storm in with 6 rogues and steal the kill, even if their group would get the exp. However, if two guilds are poopsocking something and it's unclear who engaged first, then whoever gets the kill should be awarded it. I think this would cut down on a lot of the work GM's have to do.

I don't think the current rules are adequate and I don't think something as simple as FTE is the best solution. Like you said it requires the players to request GM assistance and in cases of loot that you might turn in for other items and server firsts, the players start to expect the GM's to be "on call" for them when that's simply unrealistic.

[Amelinda]

mama liek:

However, if two guilds are poopsocking something and it's unclear who engaged first, then whoever gets the kill should be awarded it. I think this would cut down on a lot of the work GM's have to do.

the main issue i see with this though is then petitions would STILL come in:

We had FTE on Inny and TMO says they couldn't tell who was FTE.

So then we'd have to have a set of rules that would enforce this such as:

If the first player from guild B that engages the mob is more than 5 seconds after the first person from guild A then guild B is interfering with the raid. etc.

GRANTED it would likely only take one raid interference suspension to make people act right. but then one guild would be miserable for 2 weeks and i guarantee you my tell box would be non-stop scrolling about what a bitch I am for raid suspending whichever guild fucked up.

i like this idea but i can't figure out a way to implement it where it would actually cut down on my work.

[Zephyrus]

Wouldn't implementing a raid encounter shout of FTE like others have suggested eliminate most of the issues and then require no more rules Amelinda?