Raiding on P1999

[anthony210]

Originally Posted by Kruel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your not reading what i quoted you as saying. In classic the little guilds didnt get shit, at least on my server. I couldnt show up from hamburglers of time (not a knock on the guild sorry) with 15 lvl 39s and let other guilds kill it when i got FTE and the shitfest that comes with no variance FTE. You have never been there when trak was in the last our of his variance with 150ppl sitting on his spawn point. I have a real good computer with fast internet and i saw trak for roughly 10 seconds before he got downd.. i had time to get one nuke off. Wasnt fun... at all. Thank god that doesnt happen allot.

You are taking what I am saying too far. Of course guilds that cannot even kill the mob will not get shit. But if you have enough people of the proper level to kill Venril Sathir and you know he is going to spawn in 15 minutes. Well you get you're people to KC and hope for the best. This is how it was on live. If you're server had enough guilds willing to work together to avoid the chaos then they formed a rotation, if not then you had to deal with the chaos. Either way, that is the reality of how classic raiding went.

I understand that having 200 people is not fun, this is why I think if that happened enough times the guilds of this server would find a way to work together to avoid it.

Back to my first paragraph, do you really think 1 lone person who happens to get FTE will either do enough dps to actually get the xp or have the GM's side with him to get the loot. Obviously you would need to be able to kill the mob to claim FTE.

[Tarathiel]

What's the point in playing the game and winning all these phat pixels if all you can ever do with them is sit at a spawn point buffed and ready to get more? All that really says to me is you don't care about the loot. All you really want to do is prove that you can keep others from it. I mean really tho, did you guys really put all that effort into getting 60 just so you can camp your toon out at spawn points and not play them? Gimmie a break. I've seen a few comments about how this requires "skill".... That's kind of laughable to me. To me "skill" at this game is more along the lines of getting a small group of friends and guildies together to take down a big target. they may or may not even be possible for you to kill, but the effort requires more strategy and skill than just zerg rushing and poop socking. Right now the only "strategy" there is to raiding is who can mass recruit and have the largest amount of people willing to park their toons for 4+ days at a time

[Azzbad]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll thank all Divinity members ahead of time for making all future replies to this topic... topical.

This thread is for suggestions on improving the raid scene (if you feel changes are needed at all). This thread is not for slinging mud or labeling other guilds.

Anyone with a search button can find my views on this subject.

Found the hidden B!

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Fists [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wanted to state the trend in these threads. Players that bitch about poopsocking and spending countless hours online waiting on a mob, are players that are not in TMO or TR. Players in TMO and TR, do not bitch about poopsocking. Let me explain why to all you clueless kids who cannot seem to grasp the strategy that we use.

A. Get 60, get gear, get resist pieces, essentially play your toon until you have nothing else to do excluding farming plat, or getting raid gear.
B. Camp out at trakanon buffed, for his window. Note the word camp, you are not online staring at a spawn. Also note A. we don't have anything else to do, so therefor we enjoy outside things while we wait.
C. Yes, one person does track, but he does not sit there for 12 straight hours. Our tracking is generally done by a wide range of players in small 1-2 hour shifts.

- Guilds that would like raid mobs, do some research on spawn windows, get your 60's prepped and ready, and come compete. Quit bitching that in reality, TMO and TR gets EVERY raid mob with only needing to play for about 30 minutes a week.

Mythoxxus - TMO.

*** To the guy who said normal 9-5 people can't raid. I take 5 classes at UCLA and work a 20 hour a week job. I've also shown up for every mob this last week. It's not as bad as you guys make it out to be!

That sounds like so much fun. Where do I sign up for this? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Asher

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That sounds like so much fun. Where do I sign up for this? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://themysticalorder.net/phpBB3/application.php

http://www.ucla.edu/

http://www.monster.com/

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Kruel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

your not reading what i quoted you as saying. In classic the little guilds didnt get shit, at least on my server. I couldnt show up from hamburglers of time (not a knock on the guild sorry) with 15 lvl 39s and let other guilds kill it when i got FTE and the shitfest that comes with no variance FTE. You have never been there when trak was in the last our of his variance with 150ppl sitting on his spawn point. I have a real good computer with fast internet and i saw trak for roughly 10 seconds before he got downd.. i had time to get one nuke off. Wasnt fun... at all. Thank god that doesnt happen allot.

Lets say that BDA, Taken, VD and Destiny all decide they are gonna play the same game that TMO/TR play now. Everyone gets their trackers and has people monitor zones and camps people out during mob windows.

How does this differ from what you are mentioning? The current situation doesn't bother you because both TMO and TR are prepared for it. Once/if the other guilds do too then we have chaos once again. What would the Devs implement for this situation?

I am not blaming the Devs/GMs/Guides for doing what they did. I understand the reasoning behind it but I think a better solution needs to be found. This bandaid is only going to hold for so long.

This is a non-classic script put in to make the GM/Guides lives easier, but all goes to hell if all the other guilds are willing to do what TMO/TR currently do.

Why don't we just find a real solution that doesn't involve these work arounds for this non-classic variance script.

Asher

[Kruel]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets say that BDA, Taken, VD and Destiny all decide they are gonna play the same game that TMO/TR play now. Everyone gets their trackers and has people monitor zones and camps people out during mob windows.

How does this differ from what you are mentioning? The current situation doesn't bother you because both TMO and TR are prepared for it. Once/if the other guilds do too then we have chaos once again. What would the Devs implement for this situation?

I am not blaming the Devs/GMs/Guides for doing what they did. I understand the reasoning behind it but I think a better solution needs to be found. This bandaid is only going to hold for so long.

This is a non-classic script put in to make the GM/Guides lives easier, but all goes to hell if all the other guilds are willing to do what TMO/TR currently do.

Why don't we just find a real solution that doesn't involve these work arounds for this non-classic variance script.

Asher

See this makes more sence. The original poster wanted to change the rules. You guys CAN right now do this plan. Nothing would be wrong for you to do it. There will be no chaos.. If you guys can get 3-4 guilds on the same batphone and get 30-40 players online within 3-4 minutes and engage before tmo or tr and live - i sir would applaud you. This is a better idea then trying to QQ about wanting a rotation. Instead of doing this plan you guys cry and say "we want a rotation". Get ur butts up to traks lair, spend the money prebuffing 40-45 people, and work at getting loot. I have yet to see another guild precamp a solid raid force in lair, but i have seen allot of threads on rotations.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Asher [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

all goes to hell if all the other guilds are willing to do what TMO/TR currently do.

I disagree on the grounds that the element of surprise of when the mob spawns decreases the chances that everyone will be there in equal force by the time the mob has been engaged/killed.

Both TR and TMO have had situations in which they had been too slow in getting to the starting gate to even attempt a mob before the other already killed it. Everyone can indeed camp out on Trak ledge (which, again, is the only mob that TR and TMO even consider camping out at for any extended period of time on a regular basis) but in most cases won't ever see the mob unless they get on the ball with alerting their entire guild to log in and kill it IMMEDIATELY.

This is how variance FTE differs from no variance FTE. By removing the element of surprise, what remains? Exactly what Kruel/Minten stated. Everyone will be there.

I think a smaller variance would be beneficial because the window is freaking huge for each mob but even as it stands all guilds are racing to targets other than Trakanon. Whether they are jumping out of Sky or porting out from Trak ledge or OT hammering from around the world, grabbing ports from an xp dungeon or whatever, they definitely aren't sitting on top of the spawn for 4 days waiting to login and hit attack. It's way more in depth than that. Zero variance FTE would remove even that aspect of the game.

[Asher]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree on the grounds that the element of surprise of when the mob spawns decreases the chances that everyone will be there in equal force by the time the mob has been engaged/killed.

Both TR and TMO have had situations in which they had been too slow in getting to the starting gate to even attempt a mob before the other already killed it. Everyone can indeed camp out on Trak ledge (which, again, is the only mob that TR and TMO even consider camping out at for any extended period of time on a regular basis) but in most cases won't ever see the mob unless they get on the ball with alerting their entire guild to log in and kill it IMMEDIATELY.

This is how variance FTE differs from no variance FTE. By removing the element of surprise, what remains? Exactly what Kruel/Minten stated. Everyone will be there.

I think a smaller variance would be beneficial because the window is freaking huge for each mob but even as it stands all guilds are racing to targets other than Trakanon. Whether they are jumping out of Sky or porting out from Trak ledge or OT hammering from around the world, grabbing ports from an xp dungeon or whatever, they definitely aren't sitting on top of the spawn for 4 days waiting to login and hit attack. It's way more in depth than that. Zero variance FTE would remove even that aspect of the game.

With only two guilds I can see some being late to the party but with 4 or 5 I think we would have the same problems again. I am sure that TR/TMO and GM/Guides are content to wait until we get to this point to make a change. Other guilds don't want to have to go to these crazy lengths for a non-classic script.

You retort that we are not as ambitious as you and you may be right. What the Devs/Guides make guilds do requires a lot of extra work that shouldn't be necessary to hit raid targets, at least in my opinion.

I still hope a better solution can be found, whatever that may be.

Asher

[casdegere]

The raid rules will always apply though. 1) Must have the force necessary there to kill the mob, 2) first to engage.

Something both guilds have learned. TMO has tagged mobs before TR though TR Killed (KSed) it and vice versa.

What I think the small guilds need to do for Trak is get a watcher, practice communicating with their members to get them there quickly. If there force is there and they manage to get first tag they are all set no matter who gets the kill or majority of damage.

However thus this is the problem. A GM has to be called and the spam has to be gone thru to see who tagged first in lieu of both guilds working together to ensure that they alternate the kills/looting rights without GM intervention. If I had to be called to every Trak kill to settle a dispute I wouldn't dish out anymore content either.