Game Mechanics: AC should be hardcapped and "shield AC" shouldn't exist in this era.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Baugi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Toven's writeup - https://www.eqemulator.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=40543

01-21-2024, 08:11 AM Torven said:

This is the AC cap timeline that we're aware of as of this post:

* Classic (pre-Kunark) had a hard mitigation AC cap of 350 for all classes.

* At Kunark launch, level 51+ warriors had their hard cap increased to 405. All other classes (and sub 51 wars) remained at 350. (verified from the April 28 2000 client)

* AC caps changed again some time after (or at) Velious' launch. The earliest known client having the higher AC caps is April 4 2001. The new caps are: 430, 403, 375 for level 51+ melee classes only.

* The hard caps turn into soft caps for melee classes only in the late Velious time frame. (or maybe Luclin launch, not sure; would be nice to narrow this down) The overcap returns at this time are divided by 12 for all melee classes.

* PoP launch made shield AC ignore the cap. Also class and level based overcap returns. Casters get softcaps at this time, so no more hardcaps for any class.

[JayDee]

If they fix AC and the raid mobs dont auto max so often, warrior will become gods. It will be the opposite of what you are thinking.

[Rygar]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If they fix AC and the raid mobs dont auto max so often, warrior will become gods. It will be the opposite of what you are thinking.

There's plenty of video of folks dropping mobs like Sont and Zland and other raid mobs back in the day much easier than on P99 I suppose. Probably just because raid mobs are overtuned in general.

But just deflating AC and leaving high mob Attack is going to make it far more ultra hard mode in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I like hard mode (ultimately what drew me into P99 was missing how punishing EQ was back in the day), just think it may get a bit ridiculous on the raid scene.

[Goregasmic]

They're going for a certain "feel" of key mobs and I guess they're ok with where it's at. The attack of raid mobs is mostly custom values from what I understand so if you fuck with AC you have to tune atk all over again. They're not going to do that unless someone brings irrefutable proof they're off.

[Baugi]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of video of folks dropping mobs like Sont and Zland and other raid mobs back in the day much easier than on P99 I suppose. Probably just because raid mobs are overtuned in general.

But just deflating AC and leaving high mob Attack is going to make it far more ultra hard mode in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I like hard mode (ultimately what drew me into P99 was missing how punishing EQ was back in the day), just think it may get a bit ridiculous on the raid scene.

Definitely overtuned, yeah. I'd guesstimate people were using maybe 1/2 to 2/3rds the clerics and 6k tanks to clear NToV in-era on live based on screenshots, videos, memory. The logistics of trying to run a 1 second heal chain on 2001 internet confuse and frighten me.

Maybe someone who's raided on TAKP/Quarm can weigh in on how those values felt relative to P99?

That being said, a softcap factor of 1/12 is really punishing, if the formula is -

MitigationAC = INT(DefenseSkill / 3) + INT(WornAC * 4 / 3) + INT(if Agility > 70 then Agility / 20 else 0)

the difference from converting the soft-cap into a hard-cap on a BiS Velious warrior (more or less the worst case) is only ~30 AC

I'm not sure how AC is actually implemented on P99 since it was developed independently by Haynar? Also, this bit from the de-compile confuses me. It seems to further cap item AC before the hard/soft cap? e.g. https://github.com/mackal/EQMechanics/wiki/Mid-Velious -

item_ac = 0
for slot in range(0, 21): # slots 0 - 20
  item = GetItemPossession(slot)
  if item.IsValid and item.GetItemClass() == ItemClassCommon:
    if item.RecommendedLevel() or item.RecommendedSkill():
      item_ac = item_ac + AntiTwinkAdj(item)
    else:
      item_ac = item_ac + item.GetItemAC()

if not IsMage(): # silkies
  bonus = 4 * item_ac / 3

if IsClient() and bonus > 6 * GetLevel() + 25:
  bonus = 6 * GetLevel() + 25

seems to correspond to the low-level cap mentioned elsewhere (e.g. by Haynar), but it's applied directly to the item_ac derived value in the de-compile.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Baugi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Definitely overtuned, yeah. I'd guesstimate people were using maybe 1/2 to 2/3rds the clerics and 6k tanks to clear NToV in-era on live based on screenshots, videos, memory. The logistics of trying to run a 1 second heal chain on 2001 internet confuse and frighten me.

Maybe someone who's raided on TAKP/Quarm can weigh in on how those values felt relative to P99?

That being said, a softcap factor of 1/12 is really punishing, if the formula is -

MitigationAC = INT(DefenseSkill / 3) + INT(WornAC * 4 / 3) + INT(if Agility > 70 then Agility / 20 else 0)

the difference from converting the soft-cap into a hard-cap on a BiS Velious warrior (more or less the worst case) is only ~30 AC

I'm not sure how AC is actually implemented on P99 since it was developed independently by Haynar? Also, this bit from the de-compile confuses me. It seems to further cap item AC before the hard/soft cap? e.g. https://github.com/mackal/EQMechanics/wiki/Mid-Velious -

item_ac = 0
for slot in range(0, 21): # slots 0 - 20
  item = GetItemPossession(slot)
  if item.IsValid and item.GetItemClass() == ItemClassCommon:
    if item.RecommendedLevel() or item.RecommendedSkill():
      item_ac = item_ac + AntiTwinkAdj(item)
    else:
      item_ac = item_ac + item.GetItemAC()

if not IsMage(): # silkies
  bonus = 4 * item_ac / 3

if IsClient() and bonus > 6 * GetLevel() + 25:
  bonus = 6 * GetLevel() + 25

seems to correspond to the low-level cap mentioned elsewhere (e.g. by Haynar), but it's applied directly to the item_ac derived value in the de-compile.

The softcap returns being tiny feels more like it was intended as a hardcap with some breadcrumbs, rather than a proper return after softcap system. Personally I vibe with it (especially combined with a ground up respec of mob attack and accuracy values, but that would be a huge project which I can understand the staff not wanting to touch with a barge pole).

I stopped playing Quarm when the Naggy/Vox raids started, so take my anecdote with a shaker of salt, but in the content up to that point it felt much more reminiscent of how tanking / gear was interacting with NPCs in classic than p99 ever did.

I'd too love to hear how things were looking late Velious on the server from anyone who hit 60 and tanked big bosses.

[CrazyPro]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of video of folks dropping mobs like Sont and Zland and other raid mobs back in the day much easier than on P99 I suppose. Probably just because raid mobs are overtuned in general.

But just deflating AC and leaving high mob Attack is going to make it far more ultra hard mode in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I like hard mode (ultimately what drew me into P99 was missing how punishing EQ was back in the day), just think it may get a bit ridiculous on the raid scene.

The reason Sontalak is so awful here is because they made his AE a proc, where in classic it was on a timer.

[sammoHung]

I don't think this game is hard enough. It's so easy that 7 people with no life can carry 70 warmbodies who are mostly AFK watching Netflix or half paying attention soaking DKP.

[JayDee]

Originally Posted by Rygar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's plenty of video of folks dropping mobs like Sont and Zland and other raid mobs back in the day much easier than on P99 I suppose. Probably just because raid mobs are overtuned in general.

But just deflating AC and leaving high mob Attack is going to make it far more ultra hard mode in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I like hard mode (ultimately what drew me into P99 was missing how punishing EQ was back in the day), just think it may get a bit ridiculous on the raid scene.

Yeah just saying if this guy wants it classic, then warriors will take even less damage and people will be resisting a lot more AOEs as well.