New Druid Advice from the experts

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have +400 HP from items and a base of 400 HP at level 30 like my Enchanter, you would normally regenerate well past 50% before doing a fight.

You can frame it any way you like, but at the end of the day if you have 400 HP + 400 HP from items, you regenerate at the exact same rate as if you had +0 HP from items. That 400 HP of gear won't let you kill any faster, because all it adds is more maximum.

As I said before, if you aren't starting fights at maximum HP, and then fighting down to "almost dead, but you survive because of your +HP gear" ... your HP gear isn''t helping you. Except for ...

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also remember bind wound only goes to 50% HP for many classes

We were talking about Druids, and Druids really don't need Bind Wounds. But sure, if you're a soloing a Warrior or Monk or whatever, more max HP will help you start binding wounds sooner.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it takes zero skill, you can easily use a Ring of Stealthy Travel and break 2 seconds early!

Wait, so your argument against the amazingness of the Goblin Ring is that there exists a more expensive ring, that low-level Druids can't farm themselves, which is not instant casting ... so everyone should use that instead?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, if you want to show those 2 seconds are somehow significant,

You really sound like someone who hasn't seriously charmed before when you pretend two seconds doesn't matter (a lot) when finishing a charm fight.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Druids also have Lumi Staff and ES arms, so you can use mana free damage too if one nuke wasn't quite enough.

Neither of those items works until 45. A smart Druid is charming from like 20-45. That's twenty-five levels worth of XPing where the Goblin Ring is amazing (and it's still good after that ... you just also have quad kiting options at that point).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can frame it any way you like, but at the end of the day if you have 400 HP + 400 HP from items, you regenerate at the exact same rate as if you had +0 HP from items. That 400 HP of gear won't let you kill any faster, because all it adds is more maximum.

As I said before, if you aren't starting fights at maximum HP, and then fighting down to "almost dead, but you survive because of your +HP gear" ... your HP gear isn''t helping you. Except for ...

We were talking about Druids, and Druids really don't need Bind Wounds. But sure, if you're a soloing a Warrior or Monk or whatever, more max HP will help you start binding wounds sooner.

I have a 60 Torpor Shaman. I understand what you are trying to say about HP Regen.

But you don't seem to understand the basic concept that literally doubling your HP pool is more significant than getting +30 HP on a single item. I'd rather have my 2.6k hp on my level 60 Torpor Shaman instead of 1.3k lol. Same concept applies at level 30.

Remember that FoS also gives +400 HP. I hope you are not suggesting that Shamans are foolish for casting FoS on themselves and others. That it is simply a waste of mana.

Spending 1250pp on 5/55 rings, 35 HP earrings, and 15 hp bracelets for 200 HP is a good and cheap investment at low levels. Getting 10x HP at level 1 to 50% more HP at level 30 is significant for survival, especially while charming. You do indeed regenerate past your naked HP before starting a fight.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait, so your argument against the amazingness of the Goblin Ring is that there exists a more expensive ring, that low-level Druids can't farm themselves, which is not instant casting ... so everyone should use that instead?

You really sound like someone who hasn't seriously charmed before when you pretend two seconds doesn't matter (a lot) when finishing a charm fight.

I didn't say goblin ring was bad. Again you need to spend more time reading people's posts. I said the main benefit to Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel is the mana saving and saving of a spell slot.

I've seen no evidence that shows instant casting specifically for invis is significant for charm breaks. I use the Goblin Ring for charming too. I know at least 2 seconds in advance when I need to break anyway. It's not difficult to predict. Ring of Stealthy travel is better because it's normal invis and self targeting, so it's more useful and you save time on target switching.

You are the one making the claim instant invis is significant for charm breaks. Yet you have no evidence to back it up. Baseless claims don't mean much. I've done plenty of charming and mob killing in general. You can predict 2 seconds ahead when a mob is almost dead.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

Yes, I believe that incident was starting at full health. I accidentally pulled four gators. Gate was interrupted a couple times, then I rooted two gators, moved to the other corner, and successfully channeled gate. When I charmed in Chardok I would heal to full or almost-full between fights, and I still sometimes died, and I still sometimes zoned at low enough health to strip all my buffs.

Look, I don't think HP gear is some sort of amazing panacea. But saying that if you're not healing to full before every fight it's completely useless is far too reductive. There's a very small benefit to bind wound, which I am still using as it saves mana. I've been able to go about 4-8 charms before I get down to like 30% health and mana, then gate out, treeform up, bind to 50%, then med for like five minutes. HP gear lets me sometimes get an extra fight in between med breaks. I survived a fight at 81 health last night. When I get regen in a couple levels it'll let me safely rely on regeneration instead of having to occasionally drop a Greater Healing.

It's nice, not make or break, and it's especially helpful in the first 10ish levels when otherwise you'd have incredibly low max HP. But it's the AC that's really helpful in midlevel charming. I'm sure Loramin knows the mechanics of how AC works, but if anyone else doesn't, a quick summary is that any given mob has 20 damage values it can possibly do, equally spaced from min to max hit. About two thirds of the hits will be evenly spaced along the interior 18 values, and about a third will be distributed between min and max hits. Your AC value will determine whether that third is all min hits, all max hits, or somewhere in between.

I just charted all the hits I've taken against gators in blue, as well as all gator vs gator hits in red. You can see that I take almost no max hits and a lot of min hits, but the gator v gator hits have very few min hits and a lot of max hits. If I had little to no AC, I'd be taking a lot of max hits as well.

Out of curiousity I also charted all the hits I took from Chokidai Whelps in blue vs Chokidai Sniffers in red. This graph was normalized, so the x axis is the 20 DI intervals and the y axis is the relative percentage. You can see that my AC here was squarely in the middle, as I had slightly more min hits than max against the whelps, and slightly more max than min against the harder sniffers. I'm not saying it's worth trying to max out AC at higher levels but in the 20-45 range we've been discussing it's a lot easier to do and well worth it.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

It is true in abstract but it has its uses in practice. This game has the god damn habit of putting yellows in an otherwise blue con camp so it lets you face tank those.

Lets you take on pulls you can't split. Or shrug off lull fails.

Gives you some time when you need to run to zone because you aggroed that red con.

Also lets you clear entire dungeon sections and then take a bigger rest afk, that's just QOL but its nice.

Pair it with AC like bcbrown said and your survival odds go through the roof early on.

It makes everything less risky basically. You don't always need it but it is very nice to have. And not having to run to zone or gate as often increases efficiency.

[Snaggles]

Depending what level you have that extra few hundred hps means a lot. At level 9 it’s a massive safety net. At 60 it might be a couple hits. It’s an extra AE until blood aggro.

The Gob ring is more handy due to the level it works at. I used mine a lot in the 30’s and 40’s. Once a Stealthy ring works I think that could serve as a permanent replacement with a bit of space on a snared pet. Not having to re-target is another nice quality of life improvement. It’s good enough to keep equipped and having a click 2 sec invis can be a life saver.

I leveled my Druid to 60 with black chitin legs and a BCP. I’m bad at charming but did just fine.

[bcbrown]

For anyone without a clicky source of charm break, make a macro. First line hide. Second line /target *your name*. Hit that macro, if hide fails, it targets you and you're ready to cast invis. If hide suceeds the /target will fail. Note: not sure if this works if you have a see invis item, it probably won't.

Doesn't work for OP since he chose human, but for anyone who chooses Halfling or Wood Elf and doesn't have a clicky invis, it'll save a step. Obvious downside is that you'll want to cast IvA with a 3 second downtime but the hide skill check is instant so on success the target will have 3 seconds too much health.

[Snaggles]

DSM’s comment on HP gearing is valid but might I feel could use another perspective. With HP’s, a bit of AC and a fungi tunic (and a fungi staff+jboots in the early levels) you can survive far more. You can even tank a bit when your pet won’t last the fight without risking death.

Later a mild level of tanking or being able to survive a pet break is extra important. My good buddy Woodchips (the CG video person) has more unbuffed HP’s than my ranger and also wears a fungi almost always. Any mana you don’t need to spend on healing you save for other stuff.

Mana regen and fragility are two issues for the Druid. They certainly don’t lack utility. If you can dampen those issues the class can soar. It’s not going to break the balance of the game or anything but you can escape the meme with some gear and a lot of skill.

Are these important for the OP? Not really. The basics will get you to 60 without issue.

[Faywind]

Thanks for all the input guys. I enjoy a good debate as long as it's civil. I definitely see the merits of having the GGR, I am level 20 now and have been charming since level 15 and I can see how valuable having that piece would be. However, I would not be keen on doing it naked since that piece is so expensive, I wouldn't have any leftover funds. Time to save up! Glad I don't have to save for jbooots or levi cloak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[vales]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the main benefit to Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel is the mana saving and saving of a spell slot.

I've seen no evidence that shows instant casting specifically for invis is significant for charm breaks. You can predict 2 seconds ahead when a mob is almost dead.

Invisibility vs animals is 30 mana (and 3 second cast time), you save way more than 30 mana by letting mobs get lower health with an instant cast invis. The spell slot/mana cost of invis is just a bonus, not the focus. You can't predict consistently enough to get the same efficiency as an instant cast, because there are combat rounds where mob hp doesn't move at all, and sometimes consecutive rounds where it spikes.

Originally Posted by Faywind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would not be keen on doing it naked since that piece is so expensive, I wouldn't have any leftover funds. Time to save up! Glad I don't have to save for jbooots or levi cloak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah you definitely don't need it. You'll feel the difference before and after though when you do get it. I stopped to farm it at level 39 but it's way easier at 45 with elder spiritist's vambraces. I think the earliest you could farm the tunare root necklace is 29 but 34 or 39 is safer. The changes to equestrielle spawn frequency in lesser faydark make it extremely dangerous to farm, despite being near the mistmoore zoneline.