Swarming in CoM

[plzrelax]

I was in a group in KC a while back (ugh) and we had a bard puller. He was literally pulling the entire basement to LCY and kiting them around the courtyard while the rest of the group beat on the mobs. We were forced to invite a wizard to the group because he was legally stealing some of the kills from the kite.

[Jimjam]

Lol was that Euthenasia?

[Swish]

Elf laws lol

[cd288]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For clarity there are 2 types of AoE spells:

• Targeted AoE spells are like you describe where they can land on up to 4 mobs and the AoE area is based on the target the spell/song lands on
  
• Point Blank AoE (PBAOE) spells/songs land on up to 25 mobs and the AoE area is based on the caster.

PBAoEs are not unique to the bard class, there are several classes that have PBAoE spells and could effectively kill mobs in groups of 25 at a time. Fear clearing comes to mind where groups routinely burn down mobs in groups of 25 in seconds.

People always make the argument they should go to a different zone, there are other places to swarm...well guess what, there are other places to EXP too. The other person could make just as strong of a case of why YOU should be the one to go elsewhere, nobody has more or less right to a zone than someone else.

Any zone you suggest that is the perfect zone for swarming in your mind you could search in this forum and find a thread about how bards shouldn't be able to swarm there and go somewhere else, the reality is people are going to go to the places that they can accomplish what they are trying to most effectively. That makes you and the bard you're angry at no different from each other.

The reality is this is just another of the same thread that repeats itself daily on the forum. A thread about entitlement. A thread about why I should get to have things that you shouldn't. A thread about why you should spend your time doing what I think is best for you, not what you think is best for you. Take it out to the extreme and the same points made in this thread are the same reason that casters shouldn't be allowed to cast spells, that healers shouldn't be allowed to heal, and that melee classes shouldn't be able to engage mobs at melee range. Its all nonsense.

Heres a really crazy idea that actually works! If you don't want other people killing mobs around you then keep all the mobs around you dead. You can't pull stuff that isn't there, you can't kite in an area that there is nothing to kite. Give someone an opportunity and they will take it. If you want to spend your life crying about other people taking advantage of opportunities you give them well then it sucks to suck and life is going to be real hard for you.

This is the dumbest take in this thread thus far. Especially the PBAoE thing...lol at that

[onmove_broke]

Make the range of Bard AoE smaller so that they cannot hit the mob without being hit themself. Or limit the ability of a Bard to AoE swarm to true outdoor zones only.

[Stakorian]

It is incredibly easy to control not only the kite but also the reavers before zoning out. If it's crowded it is easy to just come back later. However, a number of times what ends up happening is a temple or stable group will also pull from arena and moat and then complain about the bard taking other mobs. As long as the bard informs people of the pull it only takes 2 minutes to gather the mobs on the north side of arena.

Arena is never in trouble if the reaver is run to moat before zoning. Moat is never in trouble of pulling floors 2 and 3 if they know the pull is happening and pull along the sides as most groups do.

Velks is a cluster fuck, but CoM is the truth. All parties should work together unless the bard is a clown that can't control easily controllable swarms.

[zelld52]

Originally Posted by Stakorian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is incredibly easy to control not only the kite but also the reavers before zoning out. If it's crowded it is easy to just come back later. However, a number of times what ends up happening is a temple or stable group will also pull from arena and moat and then complain about the bard taking other mobs. As long as the bard informs people of the pull it only takes 2 minutes to gather the mobs on the north side of arena.

Arena is never in trouble if the reaver is run to moat before zoning. Moat is never in trouble of pulling floors 2 and 3 if they know the pull is happening and pull along the sides as most groups do.

Velks is a cluster fuck, but CoM is the truth. All parties should work together unless the bard is a clown that can't control easily controllable swarms.

there are some bards in this game that dont play nice with others. for some reason, they are immune to the PnP put in place in this game. these are the bards that dont care if the zone is packed, dont care if someone is on the 2nd / 3rd floor.. and spend 7 days a week swarming in city of mist.

fuck those bards. and honestly CSR seemingly doesnt give a shit about it

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the dumbest take in this thread thus far. Especially the PBAoE thing...lol at that

Almost as dumb as crying about exp camps on P99, a server that has roughly a quarter of the population that live servers had with over half of the population being geared 60s that don't go into the majority of exp camps.

Some of the things pointed out are intentionally dumb sounding to highlight how dumb this entire thread is for existing. Analogies can be a powerful thing, for example:

Saying a Bard shouldn't be allowed to swarm in X zone is no different than saying enchanters shouldn't be able to charm pets there, that shaman shouldn't be able to root rot with their epic, that druids/wizards shouldn't be able to quad kite. These are all examples of a class using the generally accepted most efficient way to kill mobs.

I think we can all agree when you remove bard and apply this same line of thinking to other classes (some i.e. enchanter that people unanimously agree is a far more powerful class than bard) it sounds incredibly stupid. So yes I agree with you, this is in fact (one of) the dumbest threads possible.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by WarpathEQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Almost as dumb as crying about exp camps on P99, a server that has roughly a quarter of the population that live servers had with over half of the population being geared 60s that don't go into the majority of exp camps.

Some of the things pointed out are intentionally dumb sounding to highlight how dumb this entire thread is for existing. Analogies can be a powerful thing, for example:

Saying a Bard shouldn't be allowed to swarm in X zone is no different than saying enchanters shouldn't be able to charm pets there, that shaman shouldn't be able to root rot with their epic, that druids/wizards shouldn't be able to quad kite. These are all examples of a class using the generally accepted most efficient way to kill mobs.

I think we can all agree when you remove bard and apply this same line of thinking to other classes (some i.e. enchanter that people unanimously agree is a far more powerful class than bard) it sounds incredibly stupid. So yes I agree with you, this is in fact (one of) the dumbest threads possible.

To be fair people hogging spawns or camps one way or another would have been resolved in era by enforcing sharing. The core of the complaint is other players not making reasonable accomodations for sharing. Ergo I judge the complaining classic.

[WarpathEQ]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are some bards in this game that dont play nice with others. for some reason, they are immune to the PnP put in place in this game. these are the bards that dont care if the zone is packed, dont care if someone is on the 2nd / 3rd floor.. and spend 7 days a week swarming in city of mist.

fuck those bards. and honestly CSR seemingly doesnt give a shit about it

To be clear I'm not advocating for people to be shitty to each other and fully agree with the few productive posts in the thread that point out that a little communication goes a long way.

With that said, to say what has been described here is a PNP violation, and that CSR doesn't enforce PNP violations isn't really an accurate depiction. Copy and pasting directly from the PNP:

In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off.

As you can see the camp rules define that a camp is claimed when the mobs in the camp are consitently being cleared, not when someone is standing in an area staring at a bunch of spawned mobs. The fact that in the examples given the bard was not only able to find enough mobs that were sitting there un-engaged at their spawn points to achieve a kite, but were actually able to find 2-3x more than the 25 limit their pbaoe songs will hit displays that there were clearly pulling from camps that were not already claimed per written letter of the policy.

A more accurate depiction of the events is that there are people on P99 that have become so entitled because of how sparse the server is that it has become an expectation that when you exp in an area that you won't encounter other players also trying to do the same thing. Therefore these people operate under the assumption that if any mob in the zone they could possibly consider killing gets contested that its a flagrant foul that should be met with sweeping punishment and class nerfs, when in reality the ruleset gives no one person or entity favoritism over another when it comes to competing for mobs that are not already actively engaged and/or consistently being cleared. Therefore the events that have occurred as described in this thread are in fact ENDORSED by the PNP. Which is the actual reason that CSR isn't taking corrective action, because the players in these examples are in fact following the rules. A ruleset that is designed to ensure that all players in aggregate as a community experience the most amount of opportunities to receive experience and loot but not wasting mobs sitting up at their spawn point.

The solution is EXTREMELY SIMPLE. You will never have a camp dispute with someone in P99 if you actually properly hold down your camp. Its not possible for someone to pull mobs out of your camp when the mobs are all dead. Pick a camp you can actually manage, i.e. keep all the spawns dead before repops. Pay attention to respawn timers and IF you have a gap AND there are other mobs in the area sitting up you're fine to kill them to be as efficient as possible, just make sure you're ready for that first repop so you don't risk losing the claim on your actual properly claimed camp. At that point the only thing someone can do to negatively impact your camp is train you or kill steal a mob you're engaged on. Both of which are very clear cut and dry violations of the PNP and therefore CSR will infact enforce if a petition is needed.