Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Duik]

I know you are but what am I?

[Vear99]

Gentlemen, your root problem here is your method of competition: debating does not work. When the other person doesn't want to lose an argument, they can either write walls of semi-relevant rationalizations or take emotional shots or both. Your resolutions to be more polite will not really help, because your egos will still be on the line, the conflict will not be resolved, and you will both get frustrated again.

So, stop arguing and actually put your statements to the test, i.e. try ENC/ENC/CLR with MAG and SHM and measure. Of course there are still problems - the choice of zone and players will definitely matter - but over time the answer should become much more clear. I think you will find it a much more interesting and fun way to proceed.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not asking for a safe space.

Except you are. Grow a pair of balls and stay on topic. No more shit posting.

In an attempt to get back on topic I will quote my previous question.

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we get back to the topic at hand? You have not made a compelling case why, given the choice between a shaman and a cleric, the a group of 3 casters (2 of which at least will be charming) would choose the shaman.

We are aware of what shamans can do - to include measures to protect the casters on charm breaks. I would like for you to explain why you think that would be preferable to a 1 second targeted aoe stun (or a single target stun - both of which will be on the competent cleric’s casting bar in this group) followed by superior blast heals.

Bear in mind the above question only relates to dealing with oh shit moments and doesn’t address the list below. If you can make a compelling case for the above we will move on to the other bullets below.

1) fact that cleric can buff everyone up a good 750-850 hp with their unique line above what FoS/stamina can give a caster (minus their self shield line that does not stack)
2) the inherent value and superiority of complete heal when you’re eventually going to be hunting with pets with >7k hp
3) the actual fact that giving up on cleric this 4 group that it LIMITED to only 4 characters and all have to be casters … does not have rez.

If you can make a COMPELLING case on the quote above, we can move on to 1, 2, then 3. Please do not get distracted with bullshit about pocket clerics … at least until we get to 3. It’s time to take a systematic approach to this. Stay on topic and no shit posting or whining.

You have your work cut out for you. You lost so miserably in the first hundreds of pages that the only way to shoehorn a shaman in here is to make it the healer (and thus boot the cleric).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except you are. Grow a pair of balls and stay on topic. No more shit posting.

Incorrect. I am trying to get you out of the safe space you try to create for yourself. That is why you shit post, lie, go off topic, troll, insult, etc. You want a place to hide when the conversation isn't going you way, and it often doesn't go your way.

I also believe you are hiding in the safe space of the word "compelling". I am guessing you will simply dismiss anything I say and make the excuse that it is not "compelling". Hopefully you have the courage to debate this time in an adult manner.

Let's see if you can stay on topic for even one post. Considering you already went off-topic by talking about safe spaces, I am concerned.

Now, as for why I think you should pick a Shaman, I already gave a long post here, which you ignored. You'll need to actually read it this time instead of ignoring it and trolling:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=4843

I did forget to account for the Resolution line of spells in the HP buff section, so you can take that into account when reading it.

For oh shit moments, 7thgate made a good post here, which you also basically ignored, you just cherry picked one sentence:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=5245

Please read these two posts and then write a proper counter argument. Simply dismissing everything as "not compelling" is not an argument.

You cannot continue to ignore everything, go off topic, troll, and then ask the same questions. You need to actually read what other people have said already, and counter these points before we can move on.

[Troxx]

Instead of linking prior posts that have already been read and were not previously compelling … try again to form a compelling and coherent argument. If all you are going to do is quote what you have already written, then we the community who were not convinced the first time will gladly consider you to have run out of ideas and given up.

Let’s tackle this one issue at a time.

Deal with the above quote first. Then we’ll move on top points 1, 2, and finally 3(one at a time).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Instead of linking prior posts that have already been read and were not previously compelling … try again to form a compelling and coherent argument. If all you are going to do is quote what you have already written, then we the community who were not convinced the first time will gladly consider you to have run out of ideas and given up.

Let’s tackle this one issue at a time.

Deal with the above quote first. Then we’ll move on top points 1, 2, and finally 3(one at a time).

I was correct:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also believe you are hiding in the safe space of the word "compelling". I am guessing you will simply dismiss anything I say and make the excuse that it is not "compelling". Hopefully you have the courage to debate this time in an adult manner.

As you can see, Troxx doesn't read the answers to his questions, and just keeps asking over and over. He did not counter these posts previously when they were made. This is a troll tactic designed to dodge having to provide a counter argument. He has retreated to his safe space again.

He will simply dismiss everything out of hand, while providng no points of his own to support his argument.

As it stands, Troxx has lost the debate by using these tactics. If he wants to continue, he needs to actually read these posts so he can address the answers to his questions:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=4843 - please note I forgot the resolution line of spells in the hp buff section. You can add the HP accordingly to see the differences.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=5245

If you want to pretend you have won and just claim victory without cause, you can do that if you wish. The readers will be able to read the posts above and come to their own conclusions. They will also see you have no counter arguments that they can read. They have no idea why you are claiming victory for no reason. I doubt you'll convince people you are correct when you can't even explain your own position.

[Trexller]

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[Ripqozko]

This is why you can't compete kittens, you have a guild full of DSM

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If all you are going to do is quote what you have already written, then we the community who were not convinced the first time will gladly consider you to have run out of ideas and given up.

So is the above to be considered true DSM? Why won’t you specifically address post 5282? Tell us why or how any of the tools shamans have to mitigate risk on an enchanter charm break is preferable to a 1 second cast aoe stun that immediately locks down the situation followed by far more potent blast healing.

If and when you can make that case we will be open to discuss:

-having 750-850 more hp (resolution line and symbol) vs FoS and no self shielding
-why complete heal is cool when your charm pets have over 7k hp
-why NOT having rez is not ideal

But please. One thing at a time and let us start with the first point above. Start from the top. No more dodging like you did when you claimed you could name several camps that NEED a shaman (lol)

Simply linking prior posts constitutes a concession of defeat.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So is the above to be considered true DSM? Why won’t you specifically address post 5282? Tell us why or how any of the tools shamans have to mitigate risk on an enchanter charm break is preferable to a 1 second cast aoe stun that immediately locks down the situation followed by far more potent blast healing.

If and when you can make that case we will be open to discuss:

-having 750-850 more hp (resolution line and symbol) vs FoS and no self shielding
-why complete heal is cool when your charm pets have over 7k hp
-why NOT having rez is not ideal

But please. One thing the above at a time. Start from the stop. No more dodging like you did when you claimed you could name several camps that NEED a shaman (lol)

Simply linking prior posts constitutes a concession of defeat.

I did address these points in the posts you didn't read. What are your counter arguments?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=4843 - please note I forgot the resolution line of spells in the hp buff section. You can add the HP accordingly to see the differences.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...postcount=5245

Are you suggesting you've won the debate simply because I didn't retype a post you didn't read and didn't counter?

If you want to make up rules that say I've lost, you can do that too. It is childish, and everybody can see it's silly. You are digging a hole for yourself.