Want to Start a Rogue and Just want to Make Sure I Understand a Couple Things

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Put your points into STA so you are more effective at high levels, where those starting stats will matter.

This is complete horseshit. STA realistically still does nothing. Like Crede said, its a Magelo / dick-stroking stat.

If you're a min/max raider you're gonna rock wort pots anyway. They don't scale with HP. Who the fuck cares if you're STA capped? Resist gear and wort pots is all you "need."

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is complete horseshit. STA realistically still does nothing. Like Crede said, its a Magelo / dick-stroking stat.

If you're a min/max raider you're gonna rock wort pots anyway. They don't scale with HP. Who the fuck cares if you're STA capped? Resist gear and wort pots is all you "need."

It's really simple. Your STR will be capped well before endgame with EC gear and buffs on a class that is group dependent (meaning you will probably be buffed).

Why do you want 350 STR when it caps at 255? Put your points into the stat that is harder to cap, which is STA.

Velious era weapons and cheap haste items place your DPS well above what mobs were balanced for levels 1-50 or so anyway. You don't need 255 STR at level 30 lol. If OP makes it to 50+, they will have the ability to buy whatever gear they need.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The extra 30 STR isn't going to do much for you either 999999/1000000 times. We are not talking about a run with an untwinked Rogue. I agree with you STR is the better choice if you want to do a run with no starting gear/plat.

Otherwise, with twink gear you are going to DPS just fine with Velious weapons and a haste item. Put your points into STA so you are more effective at high levels, where those starting stats will matter.

You’re telling rogues to ignore more dps because dps is fine.

So by this mentality let’s just skip that Vulak weapon upgrade too since “dps is just fine”.

You need to go study diminishing returns. All upgrades technically get worse over time from a returns perspective. Better is still better.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's really simple. Your STR will be capped well before endgame with EC gear and buffs on a class that is group dependent (meaning you will probably be buffed).

Why do you want 350 STR when it caps at 255? Put your points into the stat that is harder to cap, which is STA.

Velious era weapons and cheap haste items place your DPS well above what mobs were balanced for levels 1-50 or so anyway. You don't need 255 STR at level 30 lol. If OP makes it to 50+, they will have the ability to buy whatever gear they need.

Raids happen fast. There aren’t a million shamans just waiting to buff you. It’s dumb. The more self reliant you become, the better everyone gets over time. Vanq learned this the hard way.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You’re telling rogues to ignore more dps because dps is fine.

So by this mentality let’s just skip that Vulak weapon upgrade too since “dps is just fine”.

You need to go study diminishing returns. All upgrades technically get worse over time from a returns perspective. Better is still better.

The problem is you think a small DPS boost from 30 STR is going to be significant during the leveling process on a character with 20k worth of twink items. It really isn't, and you would know that if you have leveled a melee character from 1-50 recently. I leveled my monk a few months ago, and he was getting 1 level an hour with 140 STR. That is already great DPS and leveling speed. Even a gnome can easily hit 140+ STR with EC gear, no buffs.

The reality is the mobs you are killing from levels 1-50 or so are not balanced around the idea of every player having 0.5+ ratio weapons and 21%+ worn haste. Spending your points to get a small boost to DPS during the leveling process is a bad tactic if you are already twinked. The 30 STR gets worse every time you level, because you are more likely to max your STR as you gain more levels. You get more money/items, and buff classes get better buffs. STA on the other hand gets better every time you level.

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raids happen fast. There aren’t a million shamans just waiting to buff you. It’s dumb. The more self reliant you become, the better everyone gets over time. Vanq learned this the hard way.

I've buffed in raids for years. It wasn't a problem lol. People got the buffs they needed, and we bagged a lot of targets every week. It's really not hard to add one extra buff to a person.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lmao 10/10

Crede, I think you've become my favorite poster.

Thanks! I think you made DSM a little jealous, lol.

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is complete horseshit. STA realistically still does nothing. Like Crede said, its a Magelo / dick-stroking stat.

If you're a min/max raider you're gonna rock wort pots anyway. They don't scale with HP. Who the fuck cares if you're STA capped? Resist gear and wort pots is all you "need."

Str makes a huge amount of sense as a leveling stat. I think you definitely get the most benefit from that.

I have almost never had uncapped str in any kind of group or raid setting since hitting 60, however. The cases where there's no shaman to buff you just doesn't really happen, and once your gear is decent a druid can buff you to cap. I guess maybe after getting a combat rez it makes some difference?

I would say the main benefit to a larger HP pool on a rogue is that you are more likely to survive long enough to realize you have aggro against a hard mob when the tank dies to allow you to hit nimble. Hitting nimble gives the raid 12 seconds to figure out who to roll chain on and how to recover, which can actually matter a lot, but you have to be able to survive the burst damage from getting meleed long enough to realize that you're the one being attacked.

Wort pots don't help with this. Wort pots do make the difference on getting AoEd down though, so its true stamina isn't really that important there other than maybe helping you stay out of low life aggro when fear locked by Sontalak and unable to click or something.

Overall though, the difference is not really that significant one way or another.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Overall though, the difference is not really that significant one way or another.

Agreed.

I always find it amusing that people are happy to tell OP to pick whatever race they want for fashion purposes. Then they turn around and say if you don't put points into starting stat X, you are going to be at a disadvantage while leveling.

If 25-30 STR was going to make a sizeable difference in leveling speed, you would think people would be telling OP to pick Barbarian. You're getting +43 Strength over Gnome before you place your starting stats, and Rogues can change their appearance/size quite easily. With Halfling Mask in the game you can get down to a small size without Shrink Pots or Warder Loot. Plus you get Slam, which can help while soloing.

In reality the STR or STA is not going to make a sizeable difference on a twinked character while leveling. On top of that, trying to min/max the leveling process just for the sake of it doesn't really make sense. If you want to level to 60 quickly, you should care more about how your character will function at 60. The purpose of leveling in that scenario is to get to level 60. If you plan on never reaching level 60, then starting stats aren't going to matter much anyway.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is you think a small DPS boost from 30 STR is going to be significant during the leveling process on a character with 20k worth of twink items. It really isn't, and you would know that if you have leveled a melee character from 1-50 recently. I leveled my monk a few months ago, and he was getting 1 level an hour with 140 STR. That is already great DPS and leveling speed. Even a gnome can easily hit 140+ STR with EC gear, no buffs.

The reality is the mobs you are killing from levels 1-50 or so are not balanced around the idea of every player having 0.5+ ratio weapons and 21%+ worn haste. Spending your points to get a small boost to DPS during the leveling process is a bad tactic if you are already twinked. The 30 STR gets worse every time you level, because you are more likely to max your STR as you gain more levels. You get more money/items, and buff classes get better buffs. STA on the other hand gets better every time you level.

The fact that you think your monks dps is fine with 140 STR honestly means nothing. You're leaving DPS on the table by not having more strength, it's really that simple.

STA may be harder to cap then STR, but that doesn't make it the best min/max stat. If you really want to min/max, then go all into CHA, since eventually STA can be capped as well.

The most noticeable starting stat will be STR. This will lead to more dps, more capacity to carry things, and more ability to swap gear out to stay at max strength. We can measure all of this as well, no matter how big or little the benefit. Putting into STA is essentially hoping you get the rare chance to see the use of it in action, but odds are you are dead before that extra STA mattered anyway.

[Jimjam]

All str to carry more loots until you can permacap it.