Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[PlsNoBan]

"Hurrdurr extra dps isn't important but a redundant slow and redundant heals are VERY IMPORTANT. Also let me spend 700+ posts trying to convince you why my dps is almost or as good as a mage. BUT DPS ISN'T IMPORTANT"

Who am I?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the hell did I bring up Fungi camp in the discussion we're having right now? Yet again, do you see how you change the narrative?

If you have Ench/Ench/Cleric EXPing and they are doing just fine and won't wipe and they're chain killing mobs, and you said hey do we want max DPS or do we want someone who will do less DPS but has utility to keep us from wiping? The only answer that makes sense is DPS. The Shaman brings no value to the table there because it can't match the DPS of a Mage (or another Enchanter); the only value the Shaman would bring is if you think the group could wipe and therefore the extra healing might be helpful.

If you're not gonna wipe in this scenario the only benefit at all to a 4th group member is getting the most DPS possible to kill even quicker, because you don't need anything else.

I didn't say you did. But Fungi King has been part of the discussion for over 100 pages now, and you haven't been reading. It isn't my fault you are lacking in context.

Under this logic, why wouldn't you just bring 4x Enchanters? The reason is simple: because everybody agrees 4x Enchanters would be too hard to play. DPS has diminishing returns.

If your group has 100 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 80 seconds.

If your group has 200 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 40 seconds.

If your group has 400 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 20 seconds.

Bringing 2x Enchanters will get your group to 200 DPS already. Bringing 2 more Enchanters gets you to 400 DPS, but only gives you half the benefit you got from the first two (20 seconds vs. 40 seconds), and your chances of wiping increases significantly. This is why people pick the Cleric over the 4th Enchanter. Even though you are losing about 10 seconds per kill by doing this, everybody understands the safety matters more than the 10 seconds. People already understand this subconsciously, which is why they are picking Enchanter/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric.

[PlsNoBan]

DPS has diminishing returns but safety doesn't. Best grp 3 clerics 3 shamans. Very safe DSM logic.

News at 11

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

DPS has diminishing returns but safety doesn't. Best grp 3 clerics 3 shamans. Very safe DSM logic.

News at 11

Again, you forget having 2 healers means you can heal two players/pets at the same time. Having the Shaman focus on slowing means the Enchanters can focus on keeping their pets under control and can recover from charm breaks faster if they occur while they are attempting to slow the mob.

DPS has breakpoints. Once you hit the optimal breakpoint, DPS has heavy diminishing returns.

[PlsNoBan]

Yes and having 3 clerics and 3 shamans means you can heal even more players/pets at the same time! It's super safe and makes a lot of sense if you use DSM logic.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes and having 3 clerics and 3 shamans means you can heal even more players/pets at the same time! It's super safe and makes a lot of sense if you use DSM logic.

No, that is another strawman. You want a balanced group that hits the DPS breakpoint necessary for the content at hand, while having good safety too.

Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric has already hit the 200 DPS breakpoint, which is honestly good enough for any content a 4 man group can do. It's easy to run the numbers and see how much time you save after that. It isn't much.

The fourth member is best served as someone who can provide safety, utility, and increased camp options.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say you did. But Fungi King has been part of the discussion for over 100 pages now, and you haven't been reading. It isn't my fault you are lacking in context.

Under this logic, why wouldn't you just bring 4x Enchanters? The reason is simple: because everybody agrees 4x Enchanters would be too hard to play. DPS has diminishing returns.

If your group has 100 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 80 seconds.

If your group has 200 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 40 seconds.

If your group has 400 DPS, a mob with 8000 HP dies in 20 seconds.

Bringing 2x Enchanters will get your group to 200 DPS already. Bringing 2 more Enchanters gets you to 400 DPS, but only gives you half the benefit you got from the first two (20 seconds vs. 40 seconds), and your chances of wiping increases significantly. This is why people pick the Cleric over the 4th Enchanter. Even though you are losing about 10 seconds per kill by doing this, everybody understands the safety matters more than the 10 seconds. People already understand this subconsciously, which is why they are picking Enchanter/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric.

You literally just proved my point. The best 4 person group would be ench ench ench cleric. You don’t need a shaman as the 4th because it’s redundant healing and lesser dps is not needed for a group that’s not going to wipe.

We spent all this time just for you to admit that the shaman is not the best choice for the 4th group member lol

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, that is another strawman. You want a balanced group that hits the DPS breakpoint necessary for the content at hand, while having good safety too.

Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric has already hit the 200 DPS breakpoint, which is honestly good enough for any content a 4 man group can do. It's easy to run the numbers and see how much time you save after that. It isn't much.

The fourth member is best served as someone who can provide safety, utility, and increased camp options.

But you invented a scenario where the group isn’t gonna wipe. Now you’re switching the scenario again because you were wrong lmao

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You literally just proved my point. The best 4 person group would be ench ench ench cleric. You don’t need a shaman as the 4th because it’s redundant healing and lesser dps is not needed for a group that’s not going to wipe.

We spent all this time just for you to admit that the shaman is not the best choice for the 4th group member lol

Oh don't worry he'll have some very solid logical data driven reason for why he's still correct

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you invented a scenario where the group isn’t gonna wipe. Now you’re switching the scenario again because you were wrong lmao

Lack of reading. Again. I didn't invent this scenario. PlsNoBan is the guy who keeps claiming a group never wipes lol.