14 Children and Teacher Killed in Texas Elementary School Shooting

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is a huge problem with collapsible batons. in any bodily location where they are non-lethal, they are absolutely ineffective, in any location where they could stop an assailant, they are like 95% lethal.

I've heard cops say that the best use for their baton is to scratch their back while wearing their vests.

If you wanna use a collapsible baton to stop a person, you have to crack their skull, eye socket, etc. It doesn't do shit against knee/elbow joints, it doesnt have the inertial mass to do so.

It's supposed to be a non-lethal takedown weapon, but it doesn't do jack shit unless lethal force is applied. and it cannot lock down an arm or a leg any better than arms or hands would. Moreover, given its length and proximity to the assailant, it can easily be taken from you.

Yeah its made of metal, so what? its hollow, it doesnt have the weight needed to knock someone to the ground unless they are off balance.

look up some youtube vids from actual martial arts instructors, the collapsible baton is useless by its own design. I'd go back to the side handle "T baton".

Time to invest in auto-reloading tazers, with variable voltage.

Yeah. You need lenght or mass and then we are at macequest. I agree with the 95% aspect.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Reiwa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty good with a bo staff.

U can get ppl on the ground with them. Stick a sharp heavy blade on one end and you're winning. Remember that spear vs sword video?

[Danth]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any type of training with a blunt object vs a rubber or plastic knife is going to be skewed in perception

Of course. You can only simulate so much. We don't really want to kill each other, after all. That being said, you get a room full of guys [who were then] all in their 20's, who all very much want to one-up each other, they're not holding back THAT much. We did have guys who had dislocated shoulders, various broken bones, etc from various training and sparring mishaps.

Main thing is, don't make it a fair fight unless you have no choice. Even if you're pretty sure you'll win, 75% odds are pretty lousy odds to stake your life on if you're dead if you lose. We were always trained to use a level of force higher than what's being used against us. Private citizens don't get as many protections from the law as police do in defense of their own lives, but regardless I'd rather take my chances with the courts than with the undertaker. I'd rather have that ASP than nothing, but don't hold any illusions as to what it can or can't do. The tool you understand and respect will be the one that gives the best service.

Danth

[starkind]

Collapsible batons are critical strike only I agree. Carry a hard cane with a steel rod inside and steel handle over that.

[Reiwa]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We were always trained to use a level of force higher than what's being used against us.

Has doctrine changed since your time?

[Trexller]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you mean I don't, I used to be a police officer, so I speak from personal experience. If you mean the other guy, probably not, but that's why I'm trying to help.

you said you would try to catch a baton mid stick. ok maybe. but then their other fist is gonna crush your larynx. You're now holding the baton, giving them leverage to pull against while throwing a punch.

maybe you caught the punch that would have hit your throat, great. now the assailant will side step you, throw their shin into the back of your knee and roll you to the ground. you let go of either hand to try and catch your own fall, but that only made it easier for the assailant to turn you facefirst to the ground during your fall.

and now you're just another statistic

im calling maybe bs on this "cop" either that or you weren't a cop for very long.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of course. You can only simulate so much. We don't really want to kill each other, after all. That being said, you get a room full of guys [who were then] all in their 20's, who all very much want to one-up each other, they're not holding back THAT much. We did have guys who had dislocated shoulders, various broken bones, etc from various training and sparring mishaps.

Main thing is, don't make it a fair fight unless you have no choice. Even if you're pretty sure you'll win, 75% odds are pretty lousy odds to stake your life on if you're dead if you lose. We were always trained to use a level of force higher than what's being used against us. Private citizens don't get as many protections from the law as police do in defense of their own lives, but regardless I'd rather take my chances with the courts than with the undertaker. I'd rather have that ASP than nothing, but don't hold any illusions as to what it can or can't do. The tool you understand and respect will be the one that gives the best service.

Danth

No actual combat other than martial arts as a kid, but my dad sends me daily videos/tutorials on self-defense/street fight info by credible sources. None involve the baton tho that was just my own idea

The occasional mistake doesn’t mean people are trying to kill each other tho, but I understand. When I used to do martial arts as a kid, I’d land a headkick to an adult, wounding their pride, and then I’d discover than a 30 year old man is kicking me age 12 as hard as they can. It was a great way to prepare for future sparring tournaments, no kid could kick as hard as 30yr old man who’s pride has just been stung. Made sparring other kids feel like free wins. I can see how a scenario of wounded pride or machismo can make people practice harder than they should

I have seen vids on the most effective way to kill someone if you do have a knife too. My strat would be get a hold of their shirt with free hand, twist it tight to prevent all lateral/defensive movement, then violently stab from up and towards center mass. Can’t attack my arm holding them in time before the strikes come, can’t trap the striking wrist easily at that angle. Seen some vids attempting every self-defense move they can think of and that angle of approach is hard to not die to, supposedly

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Trexller [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...

Or maybe I don't mean "catch" like a baseball player, I just mean wherever it happens to get me. Nor did I say I'd "try" to do that, only that if that's where it happens to land it hurts less than the end does. Stop cruising the internet looking for people to try to 'pwn', there's no point in it and makes you look bad.

Danth

[unsunghero]

Ya missing a catch on a combat stick, if not a baton, is broken fingers for sure

[Trexller]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or maybe I don't mean "catch" like a baseball player, I just mean wherever it happens to get me. Nor did I say I'd "try" to do that, only that if that's where it happens to land it hurts less than the end does. Stop cruising the internet looking for people to try to 'pwn', there's no point in it and makes you look bad.

Danth

yeah i really dont have to look very hard for idiots to 'pwn' online.

and stolen valor looks a hell of alot worse.

you said you "used" to be a cop, indicating that you departed under less than favorable circumstances, or more than likely passed the academy but failed the personality exams.

retired police officers will not say they "used to be" a cop, its like the marines, if you served with distinction once, you are a marine forever.