If you could make a new class for p99

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Find me a group of 6 properly-leveled people that would be forced to have 10 minutes of downtime per blue-con mob.

Take a group with a Druid as the only healer against any high blue con mob once you are in the high 50's/60. They have to spam their entire mana bar to heal through a single mob and since they don't have good mana regen, it's an average of 10 minutes downtime per mob between the heals and buffs they need to do.

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think I've had a 'traditional' group for more than a couple hours in the last 3 months. I have never had to wait longer than the occasional med/bio break between respawns. Across the board, your assumptions are consistently off base

I'm not off base at all, you just aren't aware of the "assumptions" I'm making. Pray tell, exactly what have you been fighting? And have those groups had a Cleric despite perhaps not being as perfectly well rounded as the ideal?

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are implying that groups must only do "higher level content". You can, sub-optimally, and optionally too (but not sub-optionally), group all the way to 60 without doing the hardest camp in the game.

You can solo to level 60 as well. That's not the point.

The point is that you must do higher level content if you want to actually experience the entire game and get the best gear. It's impossible to do that without the very specific setups. Sure, you can do groups that get to level 60 grinding out those low blue con mobs, but that's hardly what makes Everquest (in theory) such a wonderful, dynamic game.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Part of the fun of classes not being balanced is realizing these out-of-the-box (read 'box' as 'holy trinity') solutions and making them work. You state as fact your opinion that these endeavors are not fun, yet its the accomplishment felt from succeeding in these groups that I find most fulfilling. As Extunarian says, you need to stop stating opinion as fact.

It is not my opinion that it's impossible to "make it work" without a specific group dynamic at the higher levels. That is quite simply a fact and you haven't played that content if you disagree.

And once again, if the classes WERE balanced (not equalized, let's not confuse the terms) then you would still find yourself in sub-optimal situations and have to make it work. I completely agree with you that such situations are fun. I love those situations and I love seeing what different classes can do in a given scenario. That kind of gameplay does exist in Everquest during the earlier levels but then it evaporates once you get to a certain point.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anything that must be done to accomplish a task is perfectly relevant to playing the actual content. You are playing a "role-playing game", not an action shooter. This game is not just about killing things in groups

I'm perfectly aware of that, but don't try and twist the situation of not being able to form a proper group as a result of massive imbalances into something that is supposedly fun or skillful.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is questing for rare items (which usually but not explicitly involves killing things), selling things in the server's market, trade-skilling, etc. If you wanted to just kill things in a group, go play DOTA. That game has killing in a group, without the other parts of the game that exists within the Everquest game.

Questing for any great higher end item is always going to involve long camps and needing to kill the harder content of the game (a few instances where I might be wrong here, though).

Trade-skilling? LOL. I mean, yes, it would be great if that was viable in the game (and if raising your levels in tradeskills was actually a fun endeavor rather than simply a "hit the combine button" endeavor) but it's not. Jewelcrafting is the only tradeskill you might make real money from and that requires materials that are dropped from high-end monsters and also a huge initial investment.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, you say that you make your group and end up doing the same thing. There are many ways to kill things, with many different groups. I've already explained AEing vs. the traditional holy trinity, but there's also the fear-kiting ranger/necro duo if you need another example of a group that is "suboptimal" that can be very successful at "doing the exact same thing". You say there "should be" a multitude of options to "pull it off", are you blind to their existence already?

AEing is not at all a viable higher level method. And good luck going into hard dungeons with a Ranger+Necro duo and seeing how far you get fear-kiting.

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ has more roles to fill than any other MMO I have seen. WoW has the healer/tank/DPS. You fit into one of those three, always. [list][*]Travel is handled by the individual player instead of by interaction with a porting/SoWing class. (Mage porting in WoW is bullshit compared to individual flying/flight paths).[*]CC is handled by most every class, not specific classes who have less DPS to compensate for their superior CC capabilities. [*]Resurrection is handled by specific classes, not the individual player.

And that is not even a complete list of roles that exist within Everquest that have been relegated to the individual player/removed in WoW and other WoW-clones.

The amount of roles you have stated still does not cover enough territory to allow for the number of classes in EQ, if every class is to be truly unique. It's not just about specific roles either, but rather game mechanics and situations in which certain classes will shine over others. You can have two characters that are "DPS" characters and achieve that goal in completely different ways and have different nuances, requiring practice and talent to perfect the methods with regards the the specific class/specialization.

In Everquest right now, classes don't actually do anything much different to achieve that goal. Whether you are a Monk, or a Rouge, or a Ranger, you do DPS by standing around swinging under haste and occasionally pressing a couple buttons on recharge.

Your point about CC is unfortunately completely wrong once you get to the higher content, especially Velious era. The Enchanter's low-rest Mesmerize is the only viable option. As for Ressurect and Travel, they are definitely great perks and add to the community and RPG side of the game and are worthwhile assets to consider when balancing classes, but they aren't as specifically pertinent to dynamic gameplay. Although, ressurects actually do have potential for dynamic gameplay (look at Guild Wars). That is an issue I haven't talked about and am unsure about with regards to Everquest. "Battle Ressurects" are certainly a worthwhile issue to ponder, though.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Take a group with a Druid as the only healer against any high blue con mob once you are in the high 50's/60. They have to spam their entire mana bar to heal through a single mob and since they don't have good mana regen, it's an average of 10 minutes downtime per mob between the heals and buffs they need to do.

You mean white con? And at that point, if only 1 drui, it's more efficient for the drui to just solo or duo (non-contact). For a full group, really needs two healing if not a cleric. And if 2 drui, more efficient to ditch the group and duo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] ...and go after yellow cons

[Popt]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Take a group with a Druid as the only healer against any high blue con mob once you are in the high 50's/60. They have to spam their entire mana bar to heal through a single mob and since they don't have good mana regen, it's an average of 10 minutes downtime per mob between the heals and buffs they need to do.

You can do King camp in Sebilis without a Cleric healer, use a Monk tank and add slows. The only real challenge might be the King himself. And as far as mana regen, I am quite certain that most groups in the high 50's/60 would include a class that may or may not increase one's mana regeneration rate. I'm also assuming that this make believe group of yours does not include any classes that have slowing spells, stuns, or that can even DPS, because there's no reason that 6 people fighting 1 blue con mob would take anyone's entire mana bar.

[guineapig]

My thread was way more on point...

[Hasbinbad]

I'm surprised anyone is actually reading what this guy has to say anymore, but this gem out of his most recent post should seal the deal.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

AEing is not at all a viable higher level method.

Dude, nobody cares what you have to say. Go away.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My thread was way more on point...

Yeah, it was. More fun too. This one had potential, but has been hijacked by wow fanbois.