list system flaw

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Phaezed-Reality [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

see the thing is, that same group is still dominating it, by keeping a FD class afk checking and then waiting for the group to all die and then assuming #1 after they cant return to their spawn.

I have no solutions. this is all fucked lol.

And this goes back to my point on a prior thread. Why is the group dieing? Is it maybe because there are too many underleveled entitled players trying to get their welfare pixels? They may super duper wanna participate, but they just aren't strong enough.

Make all the /list required level 50. You can go as a group at any level and farm your item and /random in whatever group is capable. If you want to assert your place in a line, you need to be more than capable, Hence level 50.

[unleashedd]

list system, whether good or bad, is what we have. if #1 wants to afk, thats fine, but if its just me at #2 and him at #1, neither one of us is getting it. so i would just leave. as should you.

the argument that youre not gonna farm some afker anything - i play cleric. i am semi afk in almost every group since theres nothing to do but heal and med. i also have no affiliation with anyone i group with (they are in fact strangers). they are farming me exp while i afk... right?

[Kirrund]

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The intent was to give everyone a chance, and not let a group of neckbeards monopolize it till its gone.

The problem is before the list, this group you speak of would /random for the drop. Everyone getting a shot at it. Now there is an order. I don't feel like I am in a group of adventurers working toward a common goal. I feel like I am farming something for a stranger. If it were 5 minutes I would brush off this frustration and move on with life. But it is 12 hours per drop. I'm not willing to spend 12 hours on a stranger. That's a rational position. I also don't expect a stranger to spend 12 hours serving me.

You've already made it pretty clear in other threads that your stance is anyone not you or in your guild is considered a stranger. Which is a bit ironic considering that someone being in a guild doesn't mean they'll help you if you ask for it, or that they aren't a total dick who doesn't care about you.

I guess the point is, if you act like everyone is a stranger, they always will be. If you instead invest a little time and effort being social, talking to people, and treating others as you would also like to be treated, you will not only create a network of 'non-strangers' (also known as friends), but you will be promoting a better community with your behavior. Which, from reading these forums, is something a good few people probably could use. I think any reasonable individual (yourself included) would not turn down help from a person. You phrase it as 12 hours serving you, but that way of thinking is the flaw from the get go. They're not serving you like some sort of slave. If everyone front and back of the line is pitching in, then it is a joint effort for everyone involved, and also everyone benefits. The list system just highlights a prevailing and underlying sense of selfishness that pervades players, which leads to people twisting and perverting the system to do only just the tiniest modicum of what is necessary, and little else.

Selfishness in and of itself is not an inherently bad thing. A reasonable amount of selfishness is healthy and expected from a preservation standpoint. But pure selfishness and self interest is an extreme that's bad; for example, the total unwillingness to spend a minimal amount of personal time and cost to greatly increased effect for someone else. I'll use your old example in another thread. Being unwilling to SoW a "total stranger" when you aren't busy, if they politely ask you for it. You call entitlement, but it literally costs you a negligible amount of effort to what amounts to a much greater output for them. On the other hand, you have people who are unwilling to do anything at all for themselves, and expect others to do all of the work and carry all of the load. You realize that in both examples, they are two sides of the exact same coin? Entitlement stems from selfishness; the act of being concerned with only caring about yourself, and your own needs. You being unwilling to SoW someone at negligible cost when asked nicely, and the person AFK at #1 on the list have way more in common than you think.

[NeilYo]

Why is this thread still going for more pages? You’re all so delusional and toxic it’s unreal. If you aren’t willing to group with someone that got there before you, then it’s literally your own fault for wasting everyone’s time. someone will come along eventually and group up with list#1 and kill it together, the only person holding time hostage is the one not helping and thinking they had any real chance at the loot otherwise; because, in the end, none of you ever had chance at the loot and you’d have to save up absurd amounts of plat to try to entice the group that owns the monopoly on the item if you didn’t have this list system.

If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

[Bardp1999]

So maybe its because players are not all high enough, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'. It's pretty shitty to get a group together and visit the camp and then whoever can /List fast enough auto wins the camp instead of the group being able to roll on the item.

List system sucks, but the alternative would probably be worse. It would be nice is people could '/list' as a group and roll on the item.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Originally Posted by Grakken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this goes back to my point on a prior thread. Why is the group dieing? .

in guise case, they are well aware that any pet that gets loose down the ladder warps to lord and pulls a massive train to guise, wiping the grp, then moving the afk monk/fd class to #1 after they are kicked off the list for not being able to return.

The grp can hold it down, it's just when a pet warps, its over.

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've already made it pretty clear in other threads that your stance is anyone not you or in your guild is considered a stranger. Which is a bit ironic considering that someone being in a guild doesn't mean they'll help you if you ask for it, or that they aren't a total dick who doesn't care about you.

Fake news. Never said it. I'm not guilded. I agree guilds don't mean anything. Every guild has cliques that are always exclusive to their clique.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I guess the point is, if you act like everyone is a stranger, they always will be.

Who said I'm a sad player with no online friends? I've met many people and I can't logon for 5 minutes without getting an invite from someone.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you instead invest a little time and effort being social, talking to people, and treating others as you would also like to be treated, you will not only create a network of 'non-strangers' (also known as friends), but you will be promoting a better community with your behavior.

I have. Which is why I have perma groups, and spent my entire weekend camping an FBSS for one of these friends. I think a community of people who show up underleveled to a mob and expect others to farm a mob for 10 hours for them are entitled jerks. I don't care that the /list system allows it.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Selfishness in and of itself is not an inherently bad thing. A reasonable amount of selfishness is healthy and expected from a preservation standpoint. But pure selfishness and self interest is an extreme that's bad

I wholeheartedly agree. We just disagree what constitutes "Pure selfishness". I think the lv 35 class unable to contribute at EE is pure selfish. You don't. We disagree, that's okay.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the total unwillingness to spend a minimal amount of personal time and cost to greatly increased effect for someone else. I'll use your old example in another thread. Being unwilling to SoW a "total stranger" when you aren't busy,

Never said the bold part. I have had more than one person flame me (lots of the swears) because I wouldn't sow someone while I was tanking in HHK. I get spammed a lot for SoW. Its not the one person, its the constant supply of entitled lowbies with this same mentality. That's why so many Shaman and druids go /anon. It gets old fast.

Originally Posted by Kirrund [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if they politely ask you for it. You call entitlement, but it literally costs you a negligible amount of effort to what amounts to a much greater output for them.

That Jeff bezos guy should clearly have to give me 1 million dollars because diminishing marginal utility means group utility is maximized. Same with that cute girl, the sex only costs her 30 seconds (woo self burn) but makes my week. Clearly choice should go out the window.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You being unwilling to SoW someone at negligible cost when asked nicely, and the person AFK at #1 on the list have way more in common than you think.

These have nothing in common. Unless you're talking about the guy asking for SoW and the afk list 1 feeling entitled to me doing the work for them.

I resent the guy who feels entitled to my SoW because he "asked nicely".
I resent the list 1 guy who uses the /list system forcing others to spend 10 hours farming him welfare pixels.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you guys think waiting 24-40hrs for an item is bad you are so sadly oblivious to what you’d have to go through to get it otherwise.

I've said I'd take the /list system with current warts over no system.

Originally Posted by NeilYo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope you all get well soon and stop flaming eachother over shit that none of you ever had a chance at to begin with.

I got my Manastone. I leveled fast. I was in group when a manastone dropped and none of us was high enough lv to /list. Lower guk had NOBODY in it most of the time when I got there.

[Phaezed-Reality]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'..

just because u see the mobs up, doesn't mean u see the FD class at safe cubby keeping #1 spot(camping it), it is camped. he's just waiting for u to show up and farm his guise while he plays teal and afk's on green for his free pixels. Anyways, im done with this thread. I think people get the picture.

I offer no solutions, only facts. good luck. if you go to guise camp and keep seeing people run up the ladder, or afk fd in safe spot, just leave, specially if you are high on the list, by night time u will not be able to run back down after u wipe due to a pet falling thru the world. and noone able to double ivu, melee's specially running from binds get extra fucked.

[Fammaden]

When item drops, a /ran 1000 is auto generated for all listed players. For the player in position 1, the roll will be weighted with an extra 100 for every hour that player 1 has been on the list. So if he's been there eight hours he rolls 800 - 1000, ten or more hours then number one auto wins.

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So maybe its because players are not all high enough, but the Guise camp imparticular is not 'perma camped'. It's pretty shitty to get a group together and visit the camp and then whoever can /List fast enough auto wins the camp instead of the group being able to roll on the item.

List system sucks, but the alternative would probably be worse. It would be nice is people could '/list' as a group and roll on the item.

I brought this up on an earlier thread. You get a group together to go do guise. The person who runs there the fastest gets the first drop and the 6th guy to get there is just screwed. My solution was same as yours. Group's need to be able to /list. They can /random for it, whoever wins gets the item and the lockout. Let the group "reserve" as many /list slots as they have in the group in the area.