Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Mushman]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah exactly. It's not that Enchanters weren't as powerful at launch, it's that people at launch of Live didn't realize how powerful they were/how best to maximize their abilities. People have since been able to min/max each class over two decades and have been able to take a powerful class to the far ends of the power spectrum. People simply want this nerfed under some vague argument of "classic atmosphere", which not only is it dumb on its face but is also somewhat pointless because people began figuring out how powerful Enchanters could be over the first two expansions. So, what are you gonna do? Nerf Enchanters to some extent for some arbitrary BS reason just to un-nerf it when like Kunark launches? People need to get lives lol

It may very well be true they are exactly as they were in 1999. Maybe not, noone knows for certain. And you're right about every class being min-maxed over 20 years. The issue that I see is that when ENC is min maxed here it is so amazingly strong that charm trivializes, controls and steers so much of the game. It was nothing like that in live and if it was possible, there's no way it would have been allowed to go on. It undermines what EQ is.

IF the numbers and functionality of charm are exactly the same as they were and the only change has been connectivity and practice it still clearly hurts the ecosystem greatly.

On the topic of balance, I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I only bother to speak up about this situation specifically because it's been hurting the game for a long time and has only gotten worse. I don't care for lots of design choices but we aren't redesigning EQ I only raise my voice in the hope it gets preserved in a better and more realistic state.

Having chanterquest=1 hurts the game terribly both directly and indirectly. IF values are 100% accurate and that's the goal of the project, 100% data accuracy (which it has shown not to be) I guess it's just very sad for EQ.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Wurl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've posted "someone charmed a mob one time you guys!!!!" dozens of times in this thread now mate. Maybe that's enough posting?

The people asking for charm nerfs could hardly stop posting about the imp used on naggy, claiming that was somehow proof that charm is more powerful here than on classic. It's only fair for Nirgon to point to a classic example of a harder-to-charm mob being used on a longer fight as evidence that charm is correct here.

[Vexenu]

It's completely obnoxious to see people defending charm under the guise of classic purity when it's obviously nothing but naked self-interest from Enchanter players. It's even more obnoxious when these players have this laughable "git gud" attitude, as if their ability to faceroll the game when playing an absurdly overpowered class has more to do with their skill than the ridiculous class itself.

Reminder, the Enchanter is a class that has:

- The BEST CC in the game
- The BEST haste in the game
- The BEST mana regen in the game
- Slows, arguably the 2nd most OP spell in the game behind charm
- Self-runes to absorb damage
- An extremely powerful and underrated animation pet
- An unresistable MR debuff
- The ONLY class with Invis, IVU, memblur and Calm spells to get around dungeons

Does this sound like a weak class? Like a class that needs help? Sure, so let's go ahead and add charm! Now they also have:

- The BEST DPS in the game via charm pet
- The BEST tanking in the game via charm pet
- The ability to HEAL their charm pet out of combat via memblur

The class is overpowered before you even add charm into the equation. With charm as well, this is simply a faceroll class. I literally laugh when playing an Enchanter because it's so ridiculously easy and overpowered. I honestly don't even understand how anyone enjoys it. It trivializes the game completely. I suppose a certain type of player is attracted to that. But when you have a huge percentage of the server playing Enchanters and abusing charm the game is basically unrecognizable and feels nothing like classic.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's completely obnoxious to see people defending charm under the guise of classic purity when it's obviously nothing but naked self-interest from Enchanter players.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had quite my fill of enchanting over the last like 7 years. I don't have a horse in this race besides "shit's classic."

[Ligma]

Yeah, I haven't played P99 in years and can't join in on green because of a broken PC. I've just always forumquested.

[Mushman]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have had quite my fill of enchanting over the last like 7 years. I don't have a horse in this race besides "shit's classic."

The "Shit's classic." Doesn't seem genuine either.

Life tap clickies melting raid mobs "Shit's classic." Gone

Necro life taps not getting resisted "Shit's classic" Gone

Am I wrong?

[bwe]

Unnerf pet daggers

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The class is overpowered before you even add charm into the equation.

This is what I've never understood about it in the first place. :\ They can do way too much of the best stuff. Maybe it's just because of the way Enchanters were at launch (people were disappointed and they were underpowered supposedly), so they got some major changes and additions, but those changes were too far overboard and perhaps Verant just figured to keep them in to get more people to play Enchanter? I really don't know.

However, reading through dialogue from devs back then they clearly wanted to and had every intention of balancing the classes to the best of their ability. So what happened with Enchanter? Did they actually perceive it as balanced, or did they just not "know how good it was" like people claim about the players? I just have a hard time believing that many of the things we experience on P99, while Classic, would've stuck if we had the same circumstances we have today back then.

[DMN]

You know the great thing about this thread is how "classic" it actually feels. Hordes of forum warriors trying to nerf class X.

[d-tron]

No one was using OT hammers back in the day either, should probably nerf those as well.