Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[Maschenny]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not talking about letting old school "Knights Who Say Ni" successor Kittens get a shot at ToV: I'm talking about letting the modern raid-capable Kittens have a shot. I'm talking about letting even smaller guilds (like my own, Anonymous) form alliances with other guilds (like the AEGIS alliance), which are absolutely capable of doing ToV.

Loramin, what is preventing smaller guilds from taking a shot at ToV? I don't understand.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did say that, but I didn't say all live servers had lower population, I said "many" did. Based on the screenshots I've seen of live servers back when population numbers were published (and from the closer-to-Luclin end) that seemed to be true, but I won't swear I'm an expert on live population numbers or anything.

Regardless, if you kept the rest of that sentence you'd see that I also listed two other factors, one of which (the high density of top-level characters) I indicated was far more significant. So please don't get lost in the weeds: we all know that P99's population is uniquely top-heavy relative to live, that that impacts our raid scene, and that we have to be honest about it if we want the best raid scene possible.

But really, if the worst thing about the argument I made was that one minor supporting point was off, that says great things about my argument overall [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

*wearing Erati mask*: you're

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd venture to say most guilds trying are happy, maybe a few rules ironed out. It'd be more legit if you said you wanted rotations for Anon to get mobs intead of "for better of server" which ya wouldn't know about.

No one knows what's best for the server off the top of their head, not even Rogean: we all have our own individual isolated vantage points. The entire point of having an open an honest public debate is to share those vantage points, and hopefully have the people with closer-to-accurate opinions share them with others who don't have as much visibility from where they sit.

And again, I'm not arguing as a member of Anonymous, I'm arguing as someone who has played here for half a decade, and before that played on live where I absolutely saw the benefit of content being shared (but again, not top content: even as Bristlebane allowed rotations on Vox and Naggy, Vex Thal was absolutely the domain of only the top guilds on the server). Even if I wasn't in a guild at all, or even if I was in Aftermath, I'd still rather play on a server where 40% have access to raid content rather than 10%.

So make some honest arguments: the current system where X% of the playerbase gets to see certain content and Y% which is capable of killing that content doesn't get to, is the absolute best system for Project 199 because ... go!

[Ripqozko]

Tov is top content you can rotate kunark I don't mind

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Maschenny [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin, what is preventing smaller guilds from taking a shot at ToV? I don't understand.

The unclassic P99 competition system (vs. a rotation system). Once again, being willing to CoH-duck or do whatever stupid non-classic thing is necessary this month is different from being capable of assembling 50 of your friends and organizing them to kill a dragon.

[jpetrick]

On my server during classic there was competition. Is your classic experience is more valuable than mine?

[zati]

@ Loramin...I'm just a nobody but, here is my honest opinion.. isn't this server built around competition though? (no instancing) I feel like you're technically in a catch-22 here. You've stated GM's will never do that on this server.(Which is why you, and many ppl play here..?)

If they did implement instances... Some might stay, some might leave the server. Who knows. But, since we're here competition is what's left and keeps players going (high end content)

The majority of high end raiders are in AM(I seen 150 or more at a single raid)..that's like 3 guilds in 1... AG has been fielding 90 or so alone. If they were to split with proper classes divided n rotations were forced there'd be instantly 3-5 guilds instantly added to currently to the raid scene.. But wait.. we're just playing for "Content" ..Right? That'll be 6 month waiting-time for your guild to see that content. The population might diminish because of that. IDK.

If it ain't broke don't fix it is the only conclusion I can come up with. I see your points on making the server a place where "content is available to all guilds capable".. it's just the no-instances part that makes it almost impossible so you're cornered into Rotations is the solution. Then we're back at square 1

[Rizzle]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And again, I'm not arguing as a member of Anonymous, I'm arguing as someone who has played here for half a decade, and before that played on live where I absolutely saw the benefit of content being shared (but again, not top content: even as Bristlebane allowed rotations on Vox and Naggy, Vex Thal was absolutely the domain of only the top guilds on the server). !

If you had to pick raid mobs to rotate on p99 then what would it be if its not velious content? You keep mentioning rotating but haven't suggested targets on p99. Is it only Vox/Naggy for p99?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by jpetrick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On my server during classic there was competition. Is your classic experience is more valuable than mine?

This isn't a "which is more classic" competition ... although it it was, I honestly think the argument is stronger for rotations being classic than the FTE messages and the rest of the P99 "competition" system (which never existed on any live servers, whereas rotations absolutely did on some).

I'm trying to have a simple debate/discussion, and I massively appreciate the people willing to have it. That discussion is simple:

"_________ is the best raid system for Project 1999 overall, because _______".

The only way classic-ness factors in is that A) Rogean/Nilbog will never implement any solution that's truly un-classic (eg. instances), and B) all else being equal this is a classic server and so a "more classic" solution is preferable ... but again there's nothing classic about the current competition on P99.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Rizzle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you had to pick raid mobs to rotate on p99 then what would it be if its not velious content? You keep mentioning rotating but haven't suggested targets on p99. Is it only Vox/Naggy for p99?

I'm mainly referring to the rotation system that got proposed and taken down here recently, which was largely about ToV. But look if you have an argument that rotations are best for P99 in zones X and Y, but not Z, by all means make it!