Thread about why You Hate Luclin

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In defense of Nexus, they did needed some FREE way of getting between Luclin and Norath. Otherwise why you not paying to use ship from Freeport to BB?
Also with lev 30 req, Vah Shir would be forced to stay on Luclin for 30 levels - imagine not being able to go from Freeport to BB till lev 30.
After all Luclin is just another continent.

It shouldnt' have been on the moon then. Having to change fundamentals like that in order to keep new player travel.

"Citizens of Norrath, the tremors felt were from the plane of earth! It seems some hearty adventures have ventured too far into The Hole, angered over the death of Master Yael a new landmass has appeared at Kerra Isle!"

Cat races are now available!

Now the Qeynos boat makes a stop there.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It shouldnt' have been on the moon then. Having to change fundamentals like that in order to keep new player travel.

"Citizens of Norrath, the tremors felt were from the plane of earth! It seems some hearty adventures have ventured too far into The Hole, angered over the death of Master Yael a new landmass has appeared at Kerra Isle!"

Cat races are now available!

Now the Qeynos boat makes a stop there.

That much I agree with. When they choose the MOON as next "continent" they had to make things that be would logical for "going to the moon". I guess at that point Brad and the team decided that - "We already have too many continents. new continents are boring, lets do something totally new!" The next time a significant new land mass would be added to the old world would be with GoD expansion.

So going back to that place and time, and NOT choosing the moon, completely changes how many things would evolved.
However I think that something similar to Nexus, would still appear - because world was growing very large by that point and Spire system would bring closer together remote parts of the world.
But at very least we would do away with the "alien" theme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I would do full list of most important things Luclin did wrong it would be:

1. Choosing the Moon as next environment over another continent, underworld or say alternative realm. Hence forcing "alien" theme on otherwise fantasy world.

2. Expansion was rushed out prematurely. It felt that only about 1/4 of the zones were carefully design with heart and mind and purpose, where most of the rest were thrown together in a hurry. (Mons Letalis, Maiden Eye, Umbral Plains, Dawnshroud Picks are complete waste of space, and The Grey, Mara Seru, Twilight Sea, Scarlet Desert are barely better). Few and poorly implemented quests fall in to this category as well. yes there were a handful or involved quests, but mostly it was barren.

3. AA system was not a good design. Instead of giving CUSTOMIZATION of a character, it became MANDATORY PROGRESSION. Future high end content difficulty was tuned with idea in mind that players max out (or nearly max out) all their class AAs, and by the time of GoD it became totally INSANE. Max geared tanks could not tank raid boss unless they also had 2,000+ AAs.
IMHO a better AA system should have been something closer to WoW Talents, where you can only chose limited number of AA to obtain, but not all. But also without creating WoW's separate spec structure.

4. The Bazaar. I am one of those people who did EC tunnel. I am also one of those people who started to hate EC tunnel because it took too much of my time time. So automating sales wasn't the bad thing in my opinion. Creating centralize HUB was. What I would have done is create separate bazaar in EACH major city. Or at least 1 per continent, and let PLAYERS decide which one would become the central hub.

So these are my 4 most important factors.

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).
I mean there can be teleporters, but group teleport should cost a reagent that would be decently expensive that realistically only guilds going to a raid would spent money on to transport people quickly.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In defense of Nexus, they did needed some FREE way of getting between Luclin and Norath. Otherwise why you not paying to use ship from Freeport to BB?
Also with lev 30 req, Vah Shir would be forced to stay on Luclin for 30 levels - imagine not being able to go from Freeport to BB till lev 30.
After all Luclin is just another continent.

The ship really should have a small ticket fee (would also be fine with a single lifetime charge to always use it). Never understood why it didn't, there's even a sign for tickets at the dock. It should also be noted that traveling via boat and a special magical portal place are pretty different.

Luclin isn't just another continent, it's a whole other world. They definitely made it feel like just another random place with the way they implemented it though, which is part of why it felt so wrong. Vah Shir wouldn't be forced to stay there until level 30 without the Nexus, there's always Wizard and Druid ports (which also can be said of getting there), and I'm perfectly fine with making it more difficult for low level characters to travel. It's important to maintain the ecosystems of those starting areas, not just have everyone rushing off to a place like Paludal.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. The Bazaar. I am one of those people who did EC tunnel. I am also one of those people who started to hate EC tunnel because it took too much of my time time. So automating sales wasn't the bad thing in my opinion. Creating centralize HUB was. What I would have done is create separate bazaar in EACH major city. Or at least 1 per continent, and let PLAYERS decide which one would become the central hub.

A zone over by Shady Swashbucker into "Smugglers Den" complete with a bandit banker and places to set up sales.

Note: Doing this removes players from the tunnel area from buffing newbs, just saying.

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).
I mean there can be teleporters, but group teleport should cost a reagent that would be decently expensive that realistically only guilds going to a raid would spent money on to transport people quickly.

More reason to have a wiz/dru alt. I can't agree with teleporters in any form.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The ship really should have a small ticket fee (would also be fine with a single lifetime charge to always use it). Never understood why it didn't, there's even a sign for tickets at the dock. It should also be noted that traveling via boat and a special magical portal place are pretty different.

Luclin isn't just another continent, it's a whole other world. They definitely made it feel like just another random place with the way they implemented it though, which is part of why it felt so wrong. Vah Shir wouldn't be forced to stay there until level 30 without the Nexus, there's always Wizard and Druid ports (which also can be said of getting there), and I'm perfectly fine with making it more difficult for low level characters to travel. It's important to maintain the ecosystems of those starting areas, not just have everyone rushing off to a place like Paludal.

Re ship prices: I agree to a point. I would make it scale with char level. I would make it free for players under lev 5, and then keep increasing it to like 25pp at lev 50. BUT Ship system would needed to be MORE evolved and hitting more locations.

Re Druids/Wiz - see my post above - I am actually completely against these guys making cash from casting a spell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Best solution to MOON problem would have been not being a moon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Re: Paludal - if they didn't give that zone insane ZEM to sell the expansion, nothing would have happened. I believe that a race SHOULD mostly spend first 10-20 levels in their native area, unless you traveling across the world to play with a friend. Preventing travel by level forcefully is bad game design. If I want to be Human Druid and my friend is Dwarf - we literally do not meet until like lev 30. Which is bad.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More reason to have a wiz/dru alt. I can't agree with teleporters in any form.

By teleporters I meant classes that can teleport =) Its a huge personalized cash-making unfair advantage. Its shouldn't be in game at all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Erati]

P99 w AAs would be an EQ nerds paradise. Ya’ll be cray to think otherwise.

[kaluppo]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nexus thing would have happened one way or another because original game didn't had a well thought out long distance transportation system. And I am completely against the idea that druid and wizard should be able to earn ton of cash by doing something other classes can't. (Yes my main was a Druid and I was RICH AS HELL where my friends who played SK, Necro and Enchanter were poor as hell).

I have to diasgree. Druids especially need teleport spells just to be a desirable class to play. Proof of this was how Sony tried to "fix" the Druid class with their 75% complete heal spell after they were completely broken because they made porting easy access to everyone. There are way too many clerics and shamans around for a Druid to be viable just because of superior healing. Wizards wouldn't be broken as much for end game raiding desirability but it would discourage a lot of people from wanting to level one to 55+.

And if making PP via class skills was to become a crime then where does it end? Clerics should not get a resurrection spell or epics because they can make lots of PP rezzing for donations? Chanters should not get Clarity because they can make lots of PP by selling crack for donations?

I think they did it right by giving a couple of classes port spells to compliment the boats as a means of travel between continents. Now if you want to say boat travel should be faster or boats should charge a small fee to be used then I could see an argument for that.

[Kohedron]

The elemental models were terrible and were always inferior to classic elementals. Anyone who says otherwise is incorrect.

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe that a race SHOULD mostly spend first 10-20 levels in their native area, unless you traveling across the world to play with a friend. Preventing travel by level forcefully is bad game design. If I want to be Human Druid and my friend is Dwarf - we literally do not meet until like lev 30. Which is bad.

Preventing ports* by level, particularly NPC ports, is not the same as preventing travel by level (although inherently there must be places low level people aren't able to get to). If someone who started in Qeynos wants to play with their friend who is starting Dwarf, then they are going to have to run and meet up - an adventure! This also creates a further layer of community interaction, because low level players are going to need help running through certain areas.

I'm also perfectly fine with the idea of a race that is disconnected from the others, like for example if Vah Shir had to stay on Luclin until level 30 (could be easily explained by their bodies not being able to adapt to Norrath environment until maturity). Everyone knows going in if they pick the race, that's just the gameplay experience they are going to get. If a game ever had a Merfolk race, that would probably be a good way to do it - must stay underwater until you become mature enough to transform your tail into legs. EQ already had something very close to this with Iksar anyway - they were supposed to be extremely difficult to play in the Old World zones, pretty much needing to stay in Kunark unless you'd have enough friends to constantly vendor/bank for you elsewhere.