Paradigm Shit

[stront]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

love it or leave it is a piggish sentiment, PS officers

Oink, Oink.

-Strux

[Jokesteve]

Originally Posted by roziak87 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand the distrust a lot of people have towards LC. Sure, it's definitely open to corruption-whatever. But from my perspective it seems fair; and for me, that's enough. I have way more fun killing shit and hanging out with people to really care about what rogue got passed up on this BIS item, or what warrior is fucking raging because they didn't get the armor they wanted. Sorry you don't get an extra 15 HP dude, it's fucking heartbreaking I know.

You can hang out with people with a DKP system all the same, except without favoritism of a loot council - heartbreaking I know.

[jilena]

Originally Posted by Jokesteve [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can hang out with people with a DKP system all the same, except without favoritism of a loot council - heartbreaking I know.

That is a lie. That is a goddamned lie.

[arsenalpow]

LC works fine, otherwise you have necros trying to bid on Abashi’s and shit.

[Fabby]

Thank you OP! Not for being a pixel whore bitch baby but for making a thread that actually got some good dialog going. I appreciate it!

[Nibblewitz]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LC works fine, otherwise you have necros trying to bid on Abashi’s and shit.

The necro should get the abashi's if they are tracking and pulling. If the monks don't want the necro to get the abashi's then they step the fuck up.

Spearheads sharpening spearheads.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LC works fine, otherwise you have necros trying to bid on Abashi’s and shit.

Worked well for you guys, eh?

[kjs86z]

Originally Posted by AmazingLoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, if you look at any guild on this server, the top brass of the guild (leader and officers) are some of, if not the, best geared within their respective guilds, regardless of loot distribution system. So, saying LC guild awards best items to its officers is a moot point. That's like saying Aftermath DKP system is unfair because Detoxx, Alde, et all. have amazing gear, or Awakened DKP system is biased because Eratani, Kelz, and Happyhealz have amazing gear. Or that DKP systems are crazy in that a druid won the very first Yelinak head in BG (oh, he also happened to be the guild leader... hmm....)

Truth is, any loot distribution system is only fair if the leadership designs it so, and people support it. There's plenty of people who complain about unfair stuff in DKP guilds. I've had people in some DKP guilds complain to me that officers hog all the best DKP generating tracking/activities, or that officers do spot awards of DKP to make sure their favored crew always have the DKP they need for any item they want.

Or, your guild is struggling on an encounter, and you spend 5 hours pulling and clearing but earn the same DKP as the dude who logs in 2 minutes before the kill and earns the same amount of DKP (because it's dragon kill points, after all)? Or you are actively working to make sure your force is ready or pulling a dragon, and I'm the DPS monk playing PUBG or Dota2 with EQ minimized and GINA triggers for when someone checks to see if I'm really just AFK?

On almost every guild on this server, DKP never decays, so what about the dude who earned a ton of DKP two years ago doing small, easy stuff (because at that point, the guild was smaller/less skilled and was rewarding more DKP for easy stuff) randomly reappears and has more DKP than the folks who've spent months trying to down more difficult content but with less DKP to show for it?

And that's just earning DKP. How about spending it? Is it really fair that that you and I both want the same item, I have 1900 DKP and you have 1700, so the first time it drops, you bid 1700, forcing me to bid 1701 to get it, then the 2nd time it drops, I snag it for 5 DKP because no one else bid? If 1 dkp = 1 hour of raiding or 1 kill, didn't you just have to do way, way more work to get the same item? How's that fair? What about the dude who (because it never decays), logs in after a 6 month hiatus because he sees a Vulak batphone and blows his DKP and gets the item over the people who worked to make sure his guild could even kill Vulak?

Or, I play a rarely played class (ie: paladin or shadowknight), so I can pick up a ton of class-specific but amazing gear for very little DKP, and thus have plenty of DKP left to outbid others for all/all stuff (so I get more of the best all/all items simply because I can save more than say, a monk or warrior who has a lot of competition.) Granted, you have to play one of those classes, so I guess there's fairness in that.

A LC system can account for, and solve, for all of the problems above. In truth, so can a DKP system if the people running it are fair and sane. It all comes down to trust in the leadership and how the system is designed. Both DKP and LC can work, or fail, as they have, did and do on classic EQ, on p1999, and on any other MMORPG out there.

That being said, I personally know that the LC at PS had the audacity to give someone an amazing item off the Statue of Rallos Zek - to a dude who is not even 60, rarely raids and plays a scrub class no one thinks has a purpose (other than dying). Said dude logs in infrequently and has limited playtime, yet wastes his time helping guild members farm consumables, tracking down winged horses and random frogs and asking in /gu if anyone needs the services of his (useless) class. Officer favoritism at its worst.

Great post.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by AmazingLoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, I personally know that the LC at PS had the audacity to give someone an amazing item off the Statue of Rallos Zek - to a dude who is not even 60, rarely raids and plays a scrub class no one thinks has a purpose (other than dying). Said dude logs in infrequently and has limited playtime, yet wastes his time helping guild members farm consumables, tracking down winged horses and random frogs and asking in /gu if anyone needs the services of his (useless) class. Officer favoritism at its worst.

I don’t think I was tagged for when this happened, but Lano for President.

[jilena]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The greatest difference between LC and DKP, is that LC places individuals' fates in the hands of a select few. DKP places it with the individual. Both are corruptible, but the fundamental difference is a deferrence to authority and preference or lack thereof for an even playing field.

LC also functions more closely as a skinner box promoting addictive behavior by randomizing rewards. Keep pressing the button and you might receive a reward when someone feels you deserve it. You can't plan for it or manage your time to achieve it, you just hafta keep pulling the lever and hope the numbers line up :c

not an indictment on PS, lotta nice people in there.

LC also gives a small up and coming guild the ability to put gear where it really counts to push through increasingly more difficult content. While it's not "fair" that the main tank(s), dps, and clerics get geared out quicker than anyone else... It certainly makes it possible to kill harder targets faster. If you start with DKP the loot distribution is certainly more "fair" but handing out a single piece of loot to everyone in the guild before one person gets a second piece it's going to take longer to progress than if you quickly gear up your tanks/healers/rogues/etc.

Then of course the bigger you get the more of a clusterfuck LC becomes and the more appealing DKP becomes. So I think LC to start with transition into DKP is the powerplay. Preferably after all officer alts are geared of course.