Sky - Overseer of Air

[Mythanor]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see you out competeing for those rotated non fte mobs anyway so why does it matter to you? Perhaps if you want into said rotation you should put forth the effort of fighting for the mobs in question rather than stomping your feet demanding to be let in...

And you're not part of the Sky rotation, so why should you (or your guild members to be exact) open their mouth about what it was? Pot... meet... kettle.

Edit: And this isn't about *stomping our feet to be let ...* into anything. It was implied that it sickened someone that guilds made an arrangement for something, and yet we sometimes do stuff together. Not counting today's AoW , I saw the exact same thing on the last AoW between A and A.. you know, the two guild that *love competition*, yet teamed up? yet complain when others guild do it? Again.. Pot.. meet.. kettle.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by Mythanor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you're not part of the Sky rotation, so why should you (or your guild members to be exact) open their mouth about what it was? Pot... meet... kettle.

Edit: And this isn't about *stomping our feet to be let ...* into anything. It was implied that it sickened someone that guilds made an arrangement for something, and yet we sometimes do stuff together. Not counting today's AoW , I saw the exact same thing on the last AoW between A and A.. you know, the two guild that *love competition*, yet teamed up? yet complain when others guild do it? Again.. Pot.. meet.. kettle.

I don't see anyone in aftermath speaking about wanting nobles ffa. The last AOW AM got to like 10% and AW killed it after we wiped. This week it was beneficial to team up and get one drop rather than run the risk of wiping and losing both drops.

I guess you just don't know what you're actually seeing.

[raato]

Originally Posted by Zemus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll admit, my argument is more subjective than objective, however, CSG speaks with a single voice and is a single guild de facto. At least from an outsiders perspective.

I don't think it is madness for those interested in nobles to not wish to return to the previous system. The promise of more nobles, up to 1 a day, never really came to be during my time in sky. The timer spreadsheet basically fell apart due to snipe groups/plat farmers holding the timers. That's really the bigger issue. In fact, I was approached yesterday about setting up a team to contest nobles. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CSG is not single guild and does not always speak with single voice, even if we sometimes choose 1 person to communicate with other guilds in some things, that is just because it makes things easier for everyone. Noble has never been one of these cases. Even if we agree upon many things, we also disagree in some. We all have our own cultures, leaders and members. If we wanted to be 1 guild, we would have merged already. And believe me, merge would make alot of things easier, but we choose not to.

We all have our own Sky slots, and we all have had them for several years.

Also Sirken often acknowledges us as 3 different guilds. In all negotiations and talks with Sirken so far each of CSG guilds has had their own seat in the table.

CSG guilds almost always want to be treated as 3 different entities if/when CSG teams up with other guilds like Rustle etc. There is exceptions of course and we can be flexible about this, but usually this is the case. For example on Statue last night CSG was considered as 3 entities when we teamed up with Rustle and later we teamed up again for CT and we were considered as 1 entity, because Rustle basically won nothing valuable on Statue and we wanted to make up for it on CT (in both kills CSG outnumbered Rustle about 4:1).

And it's not unheard of that Europa, AG and Omni has competed against each others on targets that each guild can do by their own easily. Good examples are Noble, Vaniki, Hate minis, RF etc.

A/A has teamed up for many targets lately, should they also be considered as one raiding entity? No.

Timer spreadsheet we had fell apart because guilds didn't hold their part of the agreement where it was stated that "Noble has to die asap" and "Let other guilds know well in advance if you cannot handle Noble that day/time", that gave room for snipe groups and plat farmers to find noble up for several hours and get the timers.

So TL;DR: No matter how hard you want to tells us that we are 1 guild, we are not. We are 3 guilds raid alliance for harder targets due to nature of competitive environment on the server. We share the shame vision how this servers raid scene should be, but that does not mean that we are single guild.

[Zemus]

Originally Posted by raato [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So TL;DR: No matter how hard you want to tells us that we are 1 guild, we are not. We are 3 guilds raid alliance for harder targets due to nature of competitive environment on the server. We share the shame vision how this servers raid scene should be, but that does not mean that we are single guild.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[raato]

Originally Posted by Zemus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm kinda missing your point? Of course we have CSG Message of the Day to announce our common preparks. You can also see "Europa MOTD" there, where we try to update Europas scheduled raids when we remember.

The fact that we work better together as raiding alliance for harder targets than FoH/Ven ever did because of numerous reasons still doesn't make us 1 guild.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by raato [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm kinda missing your point? Of course we have CSG Message of the Day to announce our common preparks. You can also see "Europa MOTD" there, where we try to update Europas scheduled raids when we remember.

The fact that we work better together as raiding alliance for harder targets than FoH/Ven ever did because of numerous reasons still doesn't make us 1 guild.

Why not stop pussyfooting around and just combine the zerg into one guild.

Wouldn't it be easier to mobilize, communicate, and organize all of "CSG" if you were in the same guild?

My biggest issue with AG is the constant message of "casuals that raid yada yada yada" on the forums when in actuality AG has some of the biggest greediest neckbeards on the server.

At least the top raid guilds don't try to pretend they aint neckbearding stuff, they raid and raid hard, and admit doing so that's their MO.

AG is a zerg guild, that is part of an even bigger zerg alliance with two other guilds, one of them also being a zerg guild itself (hi Europa)!

I only respect Omni, they have quality people, are not a zerg guild, and if you ever deal with them you never meet a bad one. They really seem to tow the line with some decent quality control rearding guild membership, unlike AG or Europa.

This is not to say AG and Europa have all bad people, they have some great people. Point is, I find the leadership of AG in particular very disingenuous and grow really tired of their forum defenders playing the woe-is-us-poor-little-guild card.

AG is not this kind, benevolent guild force on P99 that brings joy and happiness to all, they are a large zerg guild that zergs even harder in an "alliance" with two other guilds to feed their greedy neckbeard leaders more pixels.

[Zemus]

Originally Posted by raato [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm kinda missing your point? Of course we have CSG Message of the Day to announce our common preparks. You can also see "Europa MOTD" there, where we try to update Europas scheduled raids when we remember.

The fact that we work better together as raiding alliance for harder targets than FoH/Ven ever did because of numerous reasons still doesn't make us 1 guild.

I have no point, I don't want to argue the finer points of the CSG alliance. I concede.

[kotton05]

Lhance,

You don't get many advAntages with a force that rivals zerg like numbers. It makes perfect sense to exist as smaller multiple entities and just combine for raids. Less mouths to feed on a whole, can raid other targets like hot sky hate etc separately and keep moral on the up n up. All the while maintaining dkp systems that been in place before a/a (which is a huge reason why most merges don't happen)

On the contrary a zerg like force needs lots of overall pixels to survive and not eat itself from the inside. Lots of effort would need to be put forth.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lhance,

You don't get many advAntages with a force that rivals zerg like numbers. It makes perfect sense to exist as smaller multiple entities and just combine for raids. Less mouths to feed on a whole, can raid other targets like hot sky hate etc separately and keep moral on the up n up. All the while maintaining dkp systems that been in place before a/a (which is a huge reason why most merges don't happen)

On the contrary a zerg like force needs lots of overall pixels to survive and not eat itself from the inside. Lots of effort would need to be put forth.

Well. What's the difference, they already are doing that especially when they team up for "CSG."

The fact remains also that Europa and AG are both zerg guilds.

From my perspective AG does suffer from the too-many-bodies-too-little-to-feed phenomenon. This only gets exacerbated by some individuals who are extremely greedy and in leadership positions.

I don't care in the big picture, the guild drama on forums is funny to me especially when I don't have to be a part of it.

I just find it humorous and disingenuous how certain individuals present their guilds to the forum community one way when in reality they are hardly as they say.

I have no sympathy for AG not one bit when it comes to them crying about not getting enough pixels.

[raato]

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact remains also that Europa and AG are both zerg guilds.

Please do tell me more about this zerg Europa is roaming around with? I did actually take a look at our DKP data from past few months and we usually seem to bring about 5-30 people to contested targets on CSG raids. Most of the time number being between 15-20 people.

I can admit that our weekly scheduled raids that happen every week at same time can muster attendance up to 60 when stars are aligned perfectly, but usually its between 30-40 people. We seem to have currently 115 members that have attended raid past 30 days, but we have never had them all at same raid.

And about our recruitment process since it clearly bothers you, we seem to deny about 50% of the applicants for various reasons, none of which are related on their playing skills since our only requirements are 35+ lvl and being a decent human being. Sometimes bad apples get through, but as soon as we find out we'll get rid of them. Every complaint we get about our guild members we investigate and deal how we see fit (give out warnings, guild kick, etc.).

-----

Anyhow, this is so far off topic at the moment that its pointless. Especially when some people posting seem to know very little about the matter they seem to have so strong feelings about. If you feel like you need to discuss more about why CSG should merge, please PM me or start a new thread, I'll gladly hear out your opinions on the matter.