Socialized Medicine - Let's Discuss!

[big_ole_jpn]

Originally Posted by Karkona [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not selfish to refuse. If I give a homeless man a dollar—THAT is selfish of me. The reason is because I give him the dollar because in return I get something. Whether that something is divine rewards in heaven or boosting my self-esteem the fact remains I did it for some form of gain for myself. I did it because I wanted to. I had to fulfill my desire to give him my money.

With the exceptions of sleeping, eating, going to the bathroom—everything else in life is a selfish action.

dam. dats a deep dick pizza doe

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone have thoughts on either of my two conundra? They really apply more broadly to social aid and redistribution in general, not just medicine. Looking for alternative views, because there are a lot of people who support redistribution on moral grounds, rational grounds or both. How do you get passed those question? Have they occurred to you? Do you ignore them? Do you care about humanity as a whole? How do you reconcile the conflicts?

I live in Canada (same town as Yumyums in fact). All people have the right to be put in a position to be successful. For those who are not able to be (whether for mental health or whatever reason) a civlized society bears that burden and tries to help them become productive, or their children. Assigning services to people based on their worth is discriminatory and opens the door to racism, profiling etc.

My country has a single payor health care system with universal access. Doctors are independant contractors who have a collective agreement with their province that sets rates at a sustainable level. Despite what you might hear from the Right, the Canadian system works - not flawlessly. Just like democracy, it's not the best system, it's just better than all the other options. There's all the usual fuckups that happen in any system, but my personal experience with it has been extremely positive. People get the care they need when they need it. Does someone line up for a diagnostic scan for something not life threatening? Yup. Does someone with cancer/CI/stroke etc. go to the front of the line? Hell yes. Thats how it /should/ work.

My Dad had a mild heart attack, was in the hospital Wednesday, and was out with a couple of stents in the following Friday and placed on a rigorous rehab program. All zero cost, very competent, and very fast.

Single payor systems just work, bitches.

Regards,
Mg

[big_ole_jpn]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I live in Canada (same town as Yumyums in fact). All people have the right to be put in a position to be successful. For those who are not able to be (whether for mental health or whatever reason) a civlized society bears that burden and tries to help them become productive, or their children. Assigning services to people based on their worth is discriminatory and opens the door to racism, profiling etc.

My country has a single payor health care system with universal access. Doctors are independant contractors who have a collective agreement with their province that sets rates at a sustainable level. Despite what you might hear from the Right, the Canadian system works - not flawlessly. Just like democracy, it's not the best system, it's just better than all the other options. There's all the usual fuckups that happen in any system, but my personal experience with it has been extremely positive. People get the care they need when they need it. Does someone line up for a diagnostic scan for something not life threatening? Yup. Does someone with cancer/CI/stroke etc. go to the front of the line? Hell yes. Thats how it /should/ work.

My Dad had a mild heart attack, was in the hospital Wednesday, and was out with a couple of stents in the following Friday and placed on a rigorous rehab program. All zero cost, very competent, and very fast.

Single payor systems just work, bitches.

Regards,
Mg

Despite what many might think, socialized medicine is well known across hundreds of nations all over the world. socialized medicine has been around for several centuries and has a very important meaning in the lives of many. It would be safe to assume that socialized medicine is going to be around for a long time and have an enormous impact on the lives of many people.

socialized medicine has a large role in American Culture. Many people can often be seen taking part in activities associated with socialized medicine. This is partly because people of most ages can be involved and families are brought together by this. Generally a person who displays their dislike for socialized medicine may be considered an outcast.

It is not common practice to associate economics with socialized medicine. Generally, socialized medicine would be thought to have no effect on our economic situation, but there are in fact some effects. The sales industry associated with socialized medicine is actually a 2.3 billion dollar a year industry and growing each year. The industry employs nearly 150,000 people in the United States alone. It would be safe to say that socialized medicine play an important role in American economics and shouldn't be taken for granted.

After a three month long research project, I've been able to conclude that socialized medicine doesn't negatively effect the environment at all. A socialized medicine did not seem to result in waste products and couldn't be found in forests, jungles, rivers, lakes, oceans, etc... In fact, socialized medicine produced some positive effects on our sweet little nature.

Oh does socialized medicine ever influence politics. Last year 5 candidates running for some sort of position used socialized medicine as the primary topic of their campaign. A person might think socialized medicine would be a bad topic to lead a campaign with, but in fact with the social and environmental impact is has, this topic was able to gain a great number of followers. These 5 candidates went 4 for 5 on winning their positions.

socialized medicine seem to be a much more important idea that most give credit for. Next time you see or think of socialized medicine, think about what you just read and realize what is really going on. It is likely you under valued socialized medicine before, but will now start to give the credited needed and deserved.

[AzzarTheGod]

^ this *****s a beast.

[Pokesan]

I liked Keker better

[JurisDictum]

Its pretty simple debate.

One side says: look at how it works well all over the world. Its cheaper with same health outcomes and everyone gets covered. No country wants our system after all.

and the other side tries to cherry pick as much data they can to cast doubt on this. They have a religious belief that the free market solves all problems. And by pointing out that free market doesn't solve all healthcare problems -- they get defensive and unreceptive to evidence.

[MrSparkle001]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its pretty simple debate.

One side says: look at how it works well all over the world. Its cheaper with same health outcomes and everyone gets covered. No country wants our system after all.

"Cheaper" is the operative word here, because it won't be cheaper here in the US. Our health care is ridiculously expensive and the costs are held hostage by the pharmaceutical industry and health care professionals making an incredibly high income charging astronomically enormous fees (the ones that aren't are your friendly neighborhood family practice doctors).

The cost of health care will not be reduced to reasonable levels by insuring everyone. I don't know why people think it will. All that insuring everyone does is ensure the insurance companies remain profitable and doctors, hospitals and big pharma continue to make big bucks.

(I'm aware there are doctors and hospitals that are exceptions and don't make big bucks so no need to mention them. Those hospitals also tend to suck and you wouldn't want to be treated there.)

Until health care isn't a major business it will continue to be prohibitively expensive. Until doctors aren't interested in becoming incredibly high paid specialists that extort insurance companies almost criminally with their fees, until medical malpractice lawsuits are reined in, until hospitals aren't primarily interested in turning hefty profits, until big pharma is more interested in the quality of human life over making huge profits, we will have overly expensive health care in this country.

I've had people from Canada tell me if you want to make good money in the health care industry in their country, you don't become a doctor you become a dentist. I don't know how true that is but I can imagine their doctors don't make anywhere near the money ours do. Again, not talking about the local friendly family doctor, I'm talking specialists in the big hospitals.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by MrSparkle001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've had people from Canada tell me if you want to make good money in the health care industry in their country, you don't become a doctor you become a dentist. I don't know how true that is but I can imagine their doctors don't make anywhere near the money ours do. Again, not talking about the local friendly family doctor, I'm talking specialists in the big hospitals.

Would love to elaborate and enlighten you on how dentistry works and how much of a cash cow it can be when practiced poorly. The more uncaring, reckless, and shitty you are at being a dentist the more dental care you can sell.

I was victimized from about age 14 to age 18 I'd say? I was given 6-7 huge invasive fillings for absolutely no reason. No visible decay of any sort, no problems of any sort prior to getting told I have "cavities" lol.

When I realized I had been taken for a ride and they had done incredible damage to my teeth (heavy drilling to place highly invasive amalgam mercury fillings in. For "cavities" that didn't exist outside of the dentists imagination (X-rays were clean) Preventative dentistry is a joke, the drilling is the most damage the tooth will take without actual visible decay being detectable. The drill process is known as traumatic dentistry (as opposed to atraumatic dentistry, which is the non-evil, non-greedy form of dental care (known as ART, google it). As you can imagine ART is not very popular...not enough churn and burn $$$. They joke in dental school "Drill baby drill" and other stuff I've heard as the more damage you do, the more money you stand to make.

12 years later, without a single dental visit in 12 years. Perfect teeth, proving my hypothesis correct that I was being taken for a ride. Pearly whites, aside from the highly invasive and toxic amalgam mercury filling restorations on a few molars that are inoperable (I'd love to get them removed, but the safety standard doesn't exist at this time, and there is no applicable protocol. Its considered a plastic procedure to remove mercury from your mouth according to the ADA, FDA, and AMA at this time).

I can't go into any more detail (I.E. how dentists create cavities) unless big j holds my hand, as it was already very tough to write this. I absolutely loathe the dental industry having seen how it operates, and what it can do to someone (poison and intentional creation of cavities).

It sends me to a dark place.

[maerilith]

At least dentists have a higher than average suicide rate.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by maerilith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least dentists have a higher than average suicide rate.

Indeed. Its from mercury vapor inhalation that they claim is harmless.

Its a cumulative toxin, which means you cannot detect its increases in urine or blood, its stored in the brain and throughout the body.

Love it. My dentist who fucked me hands were shaking so bad from exposure, he was going to retire. I thought that was poetic justice. All money $, but poisoned.

A biblical exchange.