Bernie Sanders is a bad ass

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by sOurDieSel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We keep importing these 'shitty cultures' and thus is why it will not work here in the USA. What do(did) these European countries all have in common for many years?? I wonder....*cough*homogeneous society*cough*

That is exactly correct. Collectivism requires a fairly homogeneous society to even have a chance at limited short-term success. People simply won't want to work hard if much of the population holds values and ideals that are antithetical to their own. The US is far too diverse for collectivism to work.

Also note that even where the population is homogeneous, collectivism barely works and only for a limited period of time. It encourages bad behaviors and without strict social controls to limit the reproduction of these bad behaviors, it will devolve within a couple generations and fail.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Filthy_Pagan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need a nordic model government. Homogeneous population and socialism.

Two questions on this:

1) Do you think any homogeneous population works? Or does it have to be white only? If it could be any old race, where are all the examples of effective black/brown socialist societies?

2) How do you propose we reach this state of homogeneity, given our current diverse population?

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Kyff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Answer 1
Because the so called failures might be tempted to take up arms and fight for a fair share of wealth if all the government does is protecting the few haves.

Answer 2
The fundament of your question is worng. If done correctly taxation does not "seize the assets" but rather reduces them. Even with the inefficiencies inherent in large operations the result should not be poverty but a more balanced distribution of wealth.

1. I said failure not failures. I was referring to the concept (as one might refer to poverty, intolerance or bigotry) not people. However if you are arguing it is reasonable for society to furnish resources to an entity out of fear of violence by that entity, would it not be more pragmatic to eliminate said entity? You are advocating racketeering.

To my original question of failure (more specifically failed behaviors), I've several additional questions:

1. If a flame is struggling to catch on the damp siding of your home, do you pile dry kindling next to it in hope the flame will relocate?

2. If your child habitually fails to meet his/ her curfew, do you upgrade their iPhone as incentive to better manage their time?

3. If an employee embezzles do you raise his salary?

4. If man commits rape, do you furnish him a concubine?




2. Any reduction in assets is exacted via seizure whether in part or in whole. Taxation is not voluntary and is executed under penalty of law. Look at any socialist oasis and you will see that they all have one (or more) of three things:

1. Ever increasing effective tax rates
2. Soaring debt
3. Robust economic protectionist policies

The inefficiency inherent to organizations that are funded via extortion necessarily results in poverty, whether internalized or exported.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by maerilith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You shouldn't subsidize failure, but it's in your interest to invest in, create, and build success.

I think we can all agree on this ^^

The question is: how do we get there?

Learning is an internal process and abating penalties for bad decisions denies the party the opportunity to learn and reinforces the behavior.

[One Tin Soldier]

Haven't you people figured out yet that you will never change each others minds about politics?

It doesn't matter anyway. America is doomed. The federal government is heading for bankruptcy and it's already almost too late to stop it. By the time the political will exists to actually try to stop it, it will be too late.

I looked into a crystal ball one night and this is what I saw: Our government borrowing ever increasing amounts of money, not only to pay for internal expenses but also to pay the interest on the debt they already have (this is already happening). As debt increases the interest payments increase. The government borrows more money. The debt increases more. The interest payments increase more. The government and the people who elect our worthy leaders don't have the stomach to reduce government spending.

The downward spiral gets steeper and faster until finally our government is unable to make it's interest payments. At this point nobody will loan them any more money because who would be insane enough to do so? No country is big enough to bail us out or would even if they could. In a desperate attempt to do something the government begins printing more money...lots more...trillions more. The value of the dollar drops to nothing. The economy is destroyed. Chaos reigns.

The United States breaks apart.

At this point things became murky. Perhaps the south and the central states split away to form the new confederacy. The north east becomes a Socialist dictatorship thus ensuring it's third world status. The west coast sees the rise of the lunatics who ban eating animal products, ban modern farming practices for the ideal of fully organic farming, and ban the use of fossil fuels. As a result millions starve to death sitting in their candle lit hovels and haven't even the means to flee as they have no fuel to put in their cars.

I have spoken. Thus it was revealed to me and thus it shall be!

[am0n]

Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have spoken. Thus it was revealed to me and thus it shall be!

This guy didn't drink the coolaid, he put it into a bag and injected it straight into his vein.

[maskedmelon]

Hah! Three words pal:

Special Drawing Rights


Checkmate logic!

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think we can all agree on this ^^

The question is: how do we get there?

Learning is an internal process and abating penalties for bad decisions denies the party the opportunity to learn and reinforces the behavior.

hey buddy! Thought I should help you in you quest to get to the greater good thingy you're after.. as in whats the right thing to do?

Ok first of all, one should know that this stuff has been debated by those in control of the goverments of continents, thousands of years ago!

So there has been a lot of trial and error in the arena heh, were not onto something new here is all Im saying.

Second of all, it has been evdient that societies that help the weaker, overall become stronger.

Societies that dont, suffer and deteriate.

The simplest reasoning is, if you dont feed the poor, they will figure out a way to take your food.

That is a scaleable concept that goes all the way up to housing, medicating, entertaining etc.

Now another thing you should think about is how the poor greatly outnumber the wealthy, in all capitalist systems. In all systems really, you can bet that you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.

So, what do you do when everyoen is poor? theres nobody left to take money from!... deteriation.

By taxing the rich, giving money to the poor, the rich are able to create more jobs, more outlets for the poor spend money, make more $$

The economy works in a huge circular effect. It's not like the wild kingdom, it's entirely different.

Now all that said, there are a few things that WE DO for our nation, like make it a friendly place to visit, contribute with every paycheck, go to war in defense of it, hell, we BUILT it.

Because of all that, we are OWED something in return and what that is, is a safe place that protects our civil liberties and helps us grow.

The government pay for that through taxes, it's the price to enter the park. Nobody is immune from them nobody has that right, no matter who they are... right now the rich think they are however.

You don't get to walk into disneyland and ride everything for free, no mater how famous and rich you are. You want the park to yourself? Well guess what, you either buy the whole thing, or you pay to rent it out for the day. Both of which cost A LOT of money.

Why should the rich be able to rent the whole country for the day, or buy the whole thing, for virtually nothing?

No, they need to pay their taxes, and the amount of space you want to occupy or time you want the park to yourself (metaphors for how rich you want to be) increases parallelly.

Remember, the rich cannot be the rich without the poor. You cannot be a Job Creator, if there is nobody that wants to do the work. The poor, are more valuble than the rich by a LONG shot... Stop living in fear of 1-2% of the world.

[One Tin Soldier]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you cant get rich, unless you're taking money from someone else, and you cant take money from someone else, without making a few people poor.

How exactly do rich people "take" money from people? The only entity which takes money from people (legally) is the government.

When a business sells a product they are not forcing people to buy it. It's a voluntary act on the part of the purchaser to buy said product. Does MacDonalds round people up at gunpoint and herd them into their resturaunts and force them to buy Big Macs?

[Lune]

Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How exactly do rich people "take" money from people? The only entity which takes money from people (legally) is the government.

For one thing, the rich people currently own the government.

Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When a business sells a product they are not forcing people to buy it. It's a voluntary act on the part of the purchaser to buy said product. Does MacDonalds round people up at gunpoint and herd them into their resturaunts and force them to buy Big Macs?

The government currently cuts their corporate patrons tax breaks, subsidies, antitrust protection, deregulation, and bailouts in exchange for campaign contributions aka bribes.

It really manifests less as them 'taking money from people' and more as class warfare and wage depression. Corporate interests (represented by both democrats and republicans) go through great lengths to diminish unions, block labor laws, and depress wages.

It's really apparent with real estate, with wealthy investors buying up large amounts of housing and renting it out, completely refusing to build affordable medium-income housing (in cahoots with municipal governments), resulting in both housing prices and the cost of rent being stupidly inflated. We're basically in another bubble already. The skyrocketing rent and mortgage payments siphon away huge amounts of disposable income and dampen spending, retarding GDP growth in a manner similar to how excessive gas prices helped precipitate the 2007 meltdown.

As more and more wealth becomes concentrated in the hands of a few, their ability to capture an even larger share of both existing wealth and newly generated wealth increases, due to the fundamental reality of economics: that wealth is conducive to more wealth, and no free market force exists to correct for inequality.