Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Axlrose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@reads through this thread...

And here I have been content when my silk swatch and pattern successfully combine to increase my meager armor from cloth to raw silk.

Good thing I am in no hurry to get into the high end game here.

It's actually fine. Usually people posting in threads like these are the people who care deeply about either acquiring the highest end pixels or who exactly is collecting them (even if they have no stake in it, for reasons I can't quite determine - closest analogy would be hoping the Yankees lose the pennant again, I think). Most people here are super friendly in my experience.

I am mildly surprised that this thread hasn't been bumped to RnF though. Moderators probably having a good weekend or something like that.

[Man0warr]

Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So rather than address it you decided to collapse the whole thing and reconstruct it to take 1 in 3 of each Kunark dragon (plus some in the FFA tier)...what a sign of BDA led community cohesion.

BDA/Taken/Div did try to address it privately in the Class R forums for months, and then when no one could agree on changes, publicly for like a month or two. That obviously didn't work, so the rotation ended a couple months early - Velious was doing away with it anyways and everyone knew that.

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah pretty sure any post you'll find it was pinned on a few smaller Class R guilds who were exploiting loopholes in the rotation rules.

Here's some history for you from an actual participant:

"Exploting" was definitely the rationale of the 3 largest Class R Guilds that presented the smaller Guilds with a draconian new ruleset for Class R with repeated ultimatums threatening to break the rotation - "they are exploiting the Class R model". They felt that smaller Guilds assisting each other with kills that they might not be able to take down 24/7 was "exploiting" and wanted to lock those Guilds out of the pixels that they wanted.

I think the smaller Guilds on the other hand felt that since the mobs were already allocated to a Guild in the rotation, assisting other Guilds wasn't reducing the mobs available to anyone else, and sharing in the loot wasn't reducing the loot available to everyone else. So not "exploiting" at all. The Big3 needed to be Class C anyways.

I don't think Divinity was more than a willing participant in the three Guild-led ruleset change to greedily snag extra pixels for themselves in a BDA/Taken/Divinity rotation. They were probably kicking themselves afterwards since when things settled down and CSG worked out how to coordinate three Guilds at a raid, it was pretty much on a rotation of BDA - Taken - Casual Scum Guilds (Omni/AG/Europa) and they didn't get a lot of mobs for quite a while.

Just some perspective. The rotation fell apart because the three biggest Class R Guilds were greedily coveting the slots of the smaller Guilds, wanted to lock them out if they couldn't kill the mobs solo 24/7, and the smaller Guilds told them to go to hell.

Regards,
Mg

[Man0warr]

"Exploting" was definitely the rationale of the 3 largest Class R Guilds that presented the smaller Guilds with a draconian new ruleset for Class R with repeated ultimatums threatening to break the rotation - "they are exploiting the Class R model". They felt that smaller Guilds assisting each other with kills that they might not be able to take down 24/7 was "exploiting" and wanted to lock those Guilds out of the pixels that they wanted.

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation.

It doesn't matter at this point though. Easier to blame BDA than realizing all the guilds were to blame, large and small.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

BDA/Taken/Div did try to address it privately in the Class R forums for months, and then when no one could agree on changes, publicly for like a month or two. That obviously didn't work, so the rotation ended a couple months early - Velious was doing away with it anyways and everyone knew that.

Arguably the "changes" weren't supposed to be agreed on, the architects knew nobody was agreeing. In fact you could argue strongly that "proposal" and "ultimatium" were the same thing.

Look what happened, way more pixels for BDA and Taken to the point where the casual guilds didn't bother contesting someone else's "turn" at Dragon X or Y.

From that perspective, very well written and worked out nicely, didn't it?

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Relbaic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are you so concerned with how we operate as a guild?

I'm just here to provide that reality check you guys seem to need re: history, damage done to the casual raid scene, and casual guilds themselves (RIP Moonlight Crusaders etc).

And with all that, and having consumed 1 in 3 Class R Kunark dragons... the backdrop for Velious hasn't been so giving. Now you have an inflated roster to gear out and less pixels to do it with...and you want changes to the raid scene because it's not going your way anymore?

Honestly, wake up. Chest still has his fingers in his ears to all of this, maybe you can save him.

[jcr4990]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Man0warr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So effectively you were taking up 3 slots in a rotation of a mob you couldn't kill as a single guild alone, that was the issue. Hell yea that would piss off the guilds that could kill it solo. It slowed down the entire rotation

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

[Nibblewitz]

Originally Posted by jcr4990 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

That's only half of it; Swish is now exploiting RnF for post count.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by mgellan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Each of the Guilds in the rotation killed the mobs solo (or in a fixed partnership occupying one slot) to actually get into the rotation, right? The issue was more about burning out mustering a raid force at 3AM to do some shitty Gore kill. We didn't want to live like that, hence we partnered.

Regards,
Mg

The only necessity to get on the rotation list was to ask in raid discussion to be added (which you were then added at the bottom of the list). No guild had to "prove" they could kill any raid target to get on that target's list.

The big three believed if that you should only take up the slots you could solo kill (so if it took 3 guilds to kill, that became a single entity), while the smaller guilds believed they had the right to join for certain targets but not others. The problem being the "big three" were listed once per mob, while an alliance would get to kill it every time a member came up, so a 3-guild alliance (for some mobs) would get to kill the mob thrice as often as "the big three", barring lockouts.