Paris attack thread - Page 10

Lune · #91 11-14-2015, 02:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't see why saying "all muslims are terrorists" is basically the same thing as saying "all blacks are thieves", i can't do anything for you. Oh and don't start on the "culture of hate" thing. the coran is exactly the same thing as the bible: a religious text from 2000 years ago that you can interpret literaly if you're not smart enough to realize that we're not in the middle age anymore.

One is a religion that heavily influences many cultures.

The other is a race.

Also nobody is saying all Muslims are terrorists, only that (for the 10th time this thread) Islamic cultures tend to be more conducive to religious violence. I take issue with the behaviors and beliefs that characterize these cultures, and I will explain why.

I feel like, even though when I took Anthropology I had cultural relativism drilled into my head and I believed it for years, you seriously need to bring yourself to understand culture. Understand the difference between culture and race, and the profound extent to which someone's culture influences the course of their life, and how it can evolve over time.

Consider the basic essence of what culture is:

There are two groups of humans living in a forest. Group A reveres fire, and devotes all its spare time to worshiping and experimenting with fire. Group B reveres wood, and spends its time worshiping trees and making things out of wood. Over several generations, due to group A's obsession with fire, they discover that if you put certain rocks in the fire, they will melt and make metal. Over a few more generations, they discover that you can shape this metal into a sharp, durable point that makes an incredible weapon or tool.

Group B, in spite of being just as ingenious as group A, are limited by the fact that wood simply doesn't have as many wondrous applications as metal. Due to their amazing new tools and weapons, group A is able to build a more complex society and their metal utterly outclasses group B in warfare and industry. Group A conquers group B and integrates/destroys their culture.

Group A and B are the same race of people, but which group was better at surviving in the forest? Why? How is this any different than one culture that highly values scientific exploration or educational attainment, and one that values pleasure and relaxation? Which one is going to achieve more? Are both cultures just as suitable for building a successful, advanced civilization?

Now apply this to the present situation. In the West, we endeavor to give our women many of the same rights as our men. Most Muslim cultures believe women should remain in the household with specific gender roles and limited rights. This is a Sharia provision. Pure cultural relativism says both these approaches have equal merit. I believe that is not true. I believe it's objectively better to give women rights, and I think societies that give their women rights end up being better societies. Now apply this to the full range of behaviors and beliefs that culture encompasses:

Political cartoons, educational attainment, courtship, how you treat the elderly, what age you should be when you have kids, how much you trust your neighbors, your faith in the government, your goals in life and the afterlife, dining customs. None of these things are dictated by your race, but by your culture. When you express disfavor for certain combinations of these things, you're expressing disfavor for a culture, not a race

Do you think it's fine that women aren't allowed to drive in many Middle Eastern countries, that they have minimal rights, often can't get an education, go out alone, or seek their own path in life? How would you like it if I called you racist because you disagreed with this treatment of women? As a very secular person, I disagree profoundly with the Sharia values that are so often part of Islamic cultures, and it pains me to watch a culture that I prefer make concessions and change itself to accommodate one that I dislike. Christian cultures, mainly in the West, tend to be more secular. Muslim cultures tend to be more fundamentalist. I'm a highly secular person. Even though not all Muslims are fundamentalist, a more fundamentalist culture is going to, on average, produce more fundamentalist people. Why the fuck would I approve of that culture? Not all Muslims are violent extremists, but most Muslims support Sharia law. Fuck that.

Cultural relativism is bullshit. Mulitculturalism, being founded on cultural relativism, is also bullshit.

Raev · #92 11-14-2015, 02:34 AM

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Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you think it's fine that women aren't allowed to drive in many Middle Eastern countries

superb idea

Sidelle · #93 11-14-2015, 02:41 AM

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