An open letter from <Forsaken>

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened to that rotation again?

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At that time, there was still a rotation. There currently isn't one in R anymore.

Staff-enforced rotation of class R is still very much in place. More information can be found here.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Parts of the guild bank carried over. DKP was awarded based on merit previously achieved in TMO.

Point of information: The bank will be disbursed and appropriately dissolved. (That or lose a ton of members who won't stand for the alternative)

Secondly, no DKP was carried over. Trust me.

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Haha, ow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh well!

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Forsaken formed to completely discontinue the legacy of TMO. It wants absolutely nothing to do with that name, we just want the members that felt the same way.

Somebody post the freaking screen shot of their forums where they're discussing perpetuating the douchebaggery...

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Somebody post the freaking screen shot of their forums where they're discussing perpetuating the douchebaggery...

Edit: hmmm link is broken now

[reborn649]

Good post bud!

Trolls and people with nothing but disdain for anything anyone does on this server other than themselves will always exist though, so don't let the following pages and pages of nonsensical responses affect what you came here to clarify/explain. If anything this should resolve a lot of stuff for people who were beginning to "reach" pretty hard on what they thought was going on or why this all came to pass in the first place.

It isn't logical to think that a new guild would knowingly try to circumvent any kind of rules with the possibility of being suspended. That could be a crippling blow to a guild that has been around for years, let alone one that is a week old. Why take the risk? Some will say "you should have known better" or "ignored huge red flags", but that wasnt the case. TMO split 4 ways and they still exist as their own entity which we are no longer a part of. If a guild splits 4 ways what would logically make a person think that after setting up a new webpage, new dkp system, teamspeak, new name, and leadership that you are still the same as you were before. If that isn't enough to separate you from a previous guild and start anew, than I have no idea what else would.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by reborn649 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good post bud!

Trolls and people with nothing but disdain for anything anyone does on this server other than themselves will always exist though, so don't let the following pages and pages of nonsensical responses affect what you came here to clarify/explain. If anything this should resolve a lot of stuff for people who were beginning to "reach" pretty hard on what they thought was going on or why this all came to pass in the first place.

It isn't logical to think that a new guild would knowingly try to circumvent any kind of rules with the possibility of being suspended. That could be a crippling blow to a guild that has been around for years, let alone one that is a week old. Why take the risk? Some will say "you should have known better" or "ignored huge red flags", but that wasnt the case. TMO split 4 ways and they still exist as their own entity which we are no longer a part of. If a guild splits 4 ways what would logically make a person think that after setting up a new webpage, new dkp system, teamspeak, new name, and leadership that you are still the same as you were before. If that isn't enough to separate you from a previous guild and start anew, than I have no idea what else would.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by reborn649 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some will say "you should have known better" or "ignored huge red flags", but that wasnt the case.

Slydexx saying "we should run it by sirkiepoo first" was enough to convince me that they knew better.

[arsenalpow]

So in the screenshot that is no longer working there's a line from someone in Forsaken saying "let's run this by Sirken". Why didn't that ever happen?

When I put forward the idea of dissolving the rotation (when it was clear that no one would agree to reform) we went to Sirken to make sure everything that we were doing was kosher. Forsaken did what they wanted with the justification of "well IB reformed and did what they wanted"

A simple conversation with Sirken would have negated a lot of these problems I think.

[Kaezyr D`Shiv]

I would like to say that being completely unbiased in any of this, I can see where the confusion in all of this stems from. The following opinion is from someone who had not yet raided on project 1999. Therefore not from someone who carries around a "I hate all things TMO" badge, like many posting here already.

1. It has been stated that any new raiding guild is automatically Class R.

2. How can anyone expect a newly formed guild, albeit largely from an older long-standing class C guild, to just jump right into Class C type "competitive" raiding and not have the same chance to test their new raid leadership like any other "new" guild for an entire 30 days. You are setting up a situation where this guild, that is trying to do something good, is at a disadvantage and increasing their risk of failure.

Rogean stated that 69 of 74 were formerly in "The Mystical Order". I would be interested to know of those 69 how many were in their previous guilds most recent successful raids. Numbers may not always tell the whole story.

Now I have also seen screenshots of the posts allegedly regarding them "blatantly" trying to circumvent the class system. It seems to me all the post is saying, especially Detoxx's comment is just stating exactly what his post here says his intentions were.

Good luck Forsaken, definitely dealt a bad hand in a difficult situation. Salt on the wound if you will

Just this insignificant specks 2 cents based on what I have read/heard on Sirken's streams.

[Ella`Ella]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A simple conversation with Sirken would have negated a lot of these problems I think.

At this point, would it really have mattered? Sirken said on his stream that he considered Forsaken a brand new guild and all new guilds start as Class-R

https://youtu.be/Rx6Z_wpZAFo?t=1h19m

We also considered this as a strong rule of thumb that would dispel any doubt (But fuck us for expecting consistency on P99, right?)

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is not the case with Rampage, and so i did not treat them that way. and as i told TMO, if they want to disband their guild to form another guild, if they want to wipe dkp, if they want to shut down the TMO website, if they install new leadership, and if they did all that without knowing that the suspension was coming (to ensure it wasnt being done to circumvent me), then id be ok with it. and that was why I told Rampage that they would not be suspended.

We did leave TMO to form another guild (TMO wasn't disbanded formally, because the guild still has a live and active membership/leadership...IB wasn't officially disbanded either though)

We did wipe our DKP

We did retire our guild page (www.tmoguild.org)

We did install new leadership (only 2 officers were carried over. IB carried over several)

And we did so having no idea we'd be punished for it.