Hey Forsaken

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Herpa derpa derp.

Prove it.

[Misek84]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to look at it in degrees Rampage was more of a "new entity" than Forsaken and even then Rampage ended up serving some of IB's suspension once all the dust settled. If anything that proves that a new guild name isn't a clean slate.

Of course the two situations arent the same, no two ever are. What constitute a new entity is VERY subjective as demonstrated by this thread, and there are no set rules either. However, to say ramp punishment of serving a few days sus when there were no repops is the same as two weeks sus plus delation of prior week loot at this cruicial time is the same is just wrong. Even staff cant agree what is a "new entity" as demostrated by shirken comment i linked before. So why harshly punish one guild and barely punish another?

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you realize you lost your point..use logical fallacy. Maybe you can divert the topic!? NOPE

Does this explain your focus on syntax over content?

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go ahead and list me some "BDA members" that went to Forsaken. I'll hang up and listen.

Holy fuck Chest. It's a tongue-in-cheek anecdotal example about how stupid the rules are. The sheer fact you can't figure that out demonstrates a lot about your positions. Step away from the keyboard man.

[Merekai]

Originally Posted by Pheer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

http://www.project1999.com/raid.php

"Demotion from Class C to Class R may only be done at the approval of the Server Staff."

I don't think Forsaken was trying to knowingly circumvent the class system, or whatever language Rogean used. The above rule is really the only thing that is relevant here though. The staff used the high % of former TMO making up the new guild to make a subjective judgement that Forsaken was comprised almost entirely of Class C raiders from a single previously established Class C guild, and should naturally be assigned C status. If there was communication with a GM before Forsaken killed class R mobs, saying yes this is approved then I would completely understand people being upset after having a suspension come down. If no concrete answer from a GM was given then exercising caution instead would have been the wise choice.

Sure we have some scenarios that have established precedence in terms of rules, but comparing situation X with situation Y doesn't really fly considering it is well known by most players who have had camp/raid disputes that GM's use their own discretion and you can't bank on a ruling in your favor last week equating to a ruling in your favor today in a similar, yet still unique scenario. Either way I wish Forsaken the best, I just wish your name didn't remind me of a guild of the same name back on Rodcet :P

Chev

[bic]

Chest do you realize that despite your burning rage for TMO/Forsaken, that YOU are actually the venomous entity on this server. What you did to the class R rotation that you previously self-congratulated yourself on for years is truly reprehensible. You walk around like some champion of the common man, but it is in fact you that took food out of your fellow class R players mouths. How you manage to fool any of these idiots is amazing. Neckbearding without neckbearding. Greed without greed. Loot-hungry newbs deploying the same no-life tactics class C does in class R, yet still maintaining an air of superiority about it.

Let's acknowledge the giant elephant in the room please and realize the class r/class c experiment failed. And ironically it failed because its very adopters ultimately gamed the very system they fought to create.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TMO died. Forsaken had 0 brand. By your opinion no new guild could enter Class R because they might go Class C some day. Try again

Staff opinion seems to be it was a rebrand, and that opinion is more relevant than whatever reality might have been.

What solution would you offer to prevent large groups of people flipping between classes by cycling the creation of new guilds?

Or do you not see that as a problem that would need to be addressed?

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by Turp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main purpose of Forsaken was to push away from the TMO persona and start new , and Rogean just gave that a big slap in the face.

Why didn't the staff warn the members of Forsaken after the first kill?
Bet they would of went to class C the next kill, but rules here are overly complicated (even cryptic sometimes) and not enforced equally. Hell when it takes a lawyer just to read and decipher them correctly, you know its bad.

They wanted to differentiate themselves from old TMO and start out by immediately trying to shit all over everyone they sneeringly dismiss as inferiors? Nothing says "same shit different name" like that...

As for why they werent warned, TMO ally Sirken admitted he didnt know just how high a percentage the TMO/Forsaken overlap was.

According to that screen grab and the fact they didnt go after available VP targets, they planned to shit on class R for at least a couple weeks.

Tbey knew EXACTLY what they were doing. Not behaving like assholes should not be as hard as it is for TMO. They thought they were being clever and taking loot by irrelevant small guilds and hater BDA. They were less clever than they thought.

[Cecily]

I'll play along, Chest. Uhhh Knix.

[Pringles]

TMO complaining about raid rules when TMO is a big part of the reason those raid rules exist. Grats all.