Petition: Guild raid suspensions should be progressively longer every time

[wycca]

Originally Posted by Triangle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pretty sure Orruar was the raid leader of Triality way back in Classic EQ...

Yes and guild leader. Damn good at it, and probably best player I've seen in the game. Different era's though, Triality didn't really form until PoP. He has some experience from our time together in A-Team on P99, including as raid leader, but not really sure of his grasp on the current dynamics behind Class C and the new FFA Class R (and Class R is going to end up worse petition-wise than C in short order).

Orr - if you want to discuss it with me sometime toss me an email or login.


Also, if anyone thinks that the # of bans has anything to do with the # of infractions and rule breaks they're sadly mistaken. All sort of things happen, from negotiations in advance, to some stuff being tossed aside for lack of evidence, stuff being combined, stuff being seperated, etc. One thing P99 is bad at is setting any sort of rule precidents - it's all subject to change. You can govern on a GM side 2 ways - from a judicial approach with precedents and standard punishments, or from an Arbiter perspective, with things changing based on each situation, variables unknown to anyone except maybe petitioning guilds, and various dynamics. Sirken tends to use the latter, not the former. This proposal might work in the former, but does not work in the latter. For better or worse P99 uses an arbiter setup instead of a judicial setup.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Nuggie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not everyone(playerbase-wise) see's this as a problem. So doesn't this then come down to one playerbase trying to dictate to another how to play the game?

Which is exactly what is happening now. The top guilds have set the precedent for the current shitshow of training without consideration to get at the pixels as fast as possible. If you don't conform to that mechanic you will get diddly-squat. Saying that; the CT race between Gimpatron and Divinity was more a case of clearing some trash first, which in turn made training one another far less likely. As far as I know neither side did.

Ofcourse the glorious irony in all this is that none of the top guilds can see that because they're stuck so far up their own pixel ass that without the dumb training where guilds do clear somewhat and open themselves up to being leap-frogged it's probable that the loot spoils in the long run end up being distributed the same between the guilds anyway.

[Doil_Boil]

Good to see some appeal to authority logical fallacies going down in this thread.

Carry on!

[Basenji]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is exactly what is happening now. The top guilds have set the precedent for the current shitshow of training without consideration to get at the pixels as fast as possible. If you don't conform to that mechanic you will get diddly-squat.

This really should be highlighted more. A relatively small group of people are monopolizing a major portion of the server's content. And they're doing it in a way that actively discourages me from wanting to participate.

I mostly want to raid to re-experience the raiding content, which is the point of this server as I understand it. I'd be happy to tag along without any chance at getting gear. But the current raid scene simply isn't classic. I stumbled on a Sev raid while running to CoM, so I decided to watch. The dragon died in like 15 seconds. There's just nothing to experience there for me. There never was anything new as I've raided all this content before, and in the current state there isn't even anything nostalgic. Plus, it seems like a lot of the people are dicks, given that they allow the training strats. It's just not worth it to run out there and watch a dragon die that fast, even if I were in on the loot. I can't be the only one here who feels like that.

A wipe would solve a lot of problems. The content would become available again. A lot of the dicks that like to monopolize content as a form of PVP would leave, because it wouldn't be easy for them anymore. And the server would a substantially more "classic" experience.

And if you're worried about the problem of an entire server population start over at level 1, don't. I can tell you that I dove in fully on the first EQ progression server. It was a blast. It's like traffic, people find other routes when their familiar one gets over-congested. You start leveling in places like Qeynos sewers, LFay, CT, Kedge, The Hole, etc. Porting becomes a valuable group asset. The most fun you can have in this game is with a dedicated leveling group where gear is statless, mobs are tough, and high level players are rare enough that you can't rely on finding one to bail you out.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Basenji [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This really should be highlighted more. A relatively small group of people are monopolizing a major portion of the server's content. And they're doing it in a way that actively discourages me from wanting to participate.

I mostly want to raid to re-experience the raiding content, which is the point of this server as I understand it. I'd be happy to tag along without any chance at getting gear. But the current raid scene simply isn't classic. I stumbled on a Sev raid while running to CoM, so I decided to watch. The dragon died in like 15 seconds. There's just nothing to experience there for me. There never was anything new as I've raided all this content before, and in the current state there isn't even anything nostalgic. Plus, it seems like a lot of the people are dicks, given that they allow the training strats. It's just not worth it to run out there and watch a dragon die that fast, even if I were in on the loot. I can't be the only one here who feels like that.

A wipe would solve a lot of problems. The content would become available again. A lot of the dicks that like to monopolize content as a form of PVP would leave, because it wouldn't be easy for them anymore. And the server would a substantially more "classic" experience.

And if you're worried about the problem of an entire server population start over at level 1, don't. I can tell you that I dove in fully on the first EQ progression server. It was a blast. It's like traffic, people find other routes when their familiar one gets over-congested. You start leveling in places like Qeynos sewers, LFay, CT, Kedge, The Hole, etc. Porting becomes a valuable group asset. The most fun you can have in this game is with a dedicated leveling group where gear is statless, mobs are tough, and high level players are rare enough that you can't rely on finding one to bail you out.

Wipe wouldn't solve anything. All the people who monopolize the content would welcome a wipe so they can monopolize it all over again. The problem is limited content and a higher than normal amount of people who have no qualms about playing this game as a full time job.

Not to mention that this is a color by numbers server where it's known on how do get from point A to point C without the bother of stopping at point B. A wipe wouldn't make things any harder on the people who know all the tricks to bypass the grind. It was only a couple of days when the first level 50 showed up after the Red Server launch. This is why server firsts here don't mean much because it comes down to who can take a week off work when new content rolls out and gets lucky with latency in the race to the target.

[Tayy]

How does a guild that brags about downing VP dragons in seconds insist that the only way to do VP is to train trash around until they can get the dragon they want and pull it.

On live my guild killed the trash and moved around killing the dragons in VP. It took longer, it had its hiccups but if you claim you have skill then lets see. TMO can go left, IB can go right and you should both be able to avoid one another.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Tayy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does a guild that brags about downing VP dragons in seconds insist that the only way to do VP is to train trash around until they can get the dragon they want and pull it.

On live my guild killed the trash and moved around killing the dragons in VP. It took longer, it had its hiccups but if you claim you have skill then lets see. TMO can go left, IB can go right and you should both be able to avoid one another.

Have you led at least 300 VP raids? If not, then you aren't sufficiently experienced to have a valid opinion on this topic.

[Daldaen]

The problem with a wipe is the players who are left on the outside now are almost guaranteed to be left on the outside after the wipe too. Primarily because they aren't neckbeardy enough.

Those players currently locking down the raid scene, are the same ones who would sit on Manastone and Guise camps for 18 hours straight and then transfer them off to their guildmate who would sit on the camp for 18 hours straight.

It would leave everyone who thought the wipe would solve all their problems very discouraged. Some people may jump up from their current status of being left on the outside, to being a poopsockerrs themselves but they will need a huge time commitment. And some who are already those who are monopolizing may leave when they don't want to put in the time starting over.

However it will not fix the underlying issue of two factions of playtime. Those who are willing to put in 50+ hours a week Poopsocking and staring at a wall and those who aren't.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Tayy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How does a guild that brags about downing VP dragons in seconds insist that the only way to do VP is to train trash around until they can get the dragon they want and pull it.

On live my guild killed the trash and moved around killing the dragons in VP. It took longer, it had its hiccups but if you claim you have skill then lets see. TMO can go left, IB can go right and you should both be able to avoid one another.

Who wants to waste their time playing a game?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella

Have you ever led a raid?

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having an opinion on matter means that on some level you have a basic understanding of the subject material in which you base your opinion on. Having led a raid would be a good qualifier. Maybe even zoning into VP a single time would even be a good start before commenting on the manner in which the content is engaged.

Forumquest tip: If you are going to move the goalposts, put at least 3-4 filler replies in between so it's harder to recognize. When you start backpedaling so quickly, it's too obvious.