The plight of the Kagatob

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

citation

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What's your suggestion then? Ignore them? We tried that, then they fucked comics and tabletop games. They almost fucked the entire Atheism movement and now they are going full Jack Thompson on video games. Lets not forget what they are doing to academia.

Sorry no, gonna call out bullshit where I see it and discredit these cultists at every opportunity.

I just completely disagree that anything done in the purview of morally sound and ethical feminism is detrimental to any of these things, but that's fine. That's another conversation on which I'm sure we'll violently disagree.

But sure, ignore them. Or don't, and criticize them. It's a free country - do what you like. Calling them cultists is quite a stretch, and will certainly only diminish your arguments, but by all means use the first amendment to your advantage.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Calling them cultists is quite a stretch, and will certainly only diminish your arguments, but by all means use the first amendment to your advantage.

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Theres no ideological narrative, not at all.

[paulgiamatti]

I don't have answers to these things. I'm just a guy who happens to think feminism is valuable, but at the same time we're kind of a point where women's issues are becoming much more difficult to illuminate under the thrust of the feminist movement.

I think radical feminism is also important for this reason - to penetrate and expose these issues - but this is where things get messy and you end up with some really extreme, baseless views that call everything and anything misogyny, or the #killallmen hashtag and so forth. I don't agree with this, but at the same time I still think there are important issues that still need to be uncovered, and the whole GamerGate thing was from my point of a view a glaring, undeniable example of this. The fact that we're now dealing with this SJW meme is a glaring, undeniable example of this - not because of the people being called SJWs, but because of the people using that term to discredit people who actually have good reasons to speak out about societal issues.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have answers to these things. I'm just a guy who happens to think feminism is valuable, but at the same time we're kind of a point where women's issues are becoming much more difficult to illuminate under the thrust of the feminist movement.

I think radical feminism is also important for this reason - to penetrate and expose these issues - but this is where things get messy and you end up with some really extreme, baseless views that call everything and anything misogyny, or the #killallmen hashtag and so forth. I don't agree with this, but at the same time I still think there are important issues that still need to be uncovered, and the whole GamerGate thing was from my point of a view a glaring, undeniable example of this. The fact that we're now dealing with this SJW meme is a glaring, undeniable example of this - not because of the people being called SJWs, but because of the people using that term to discredit people who actually have good reasons to speak out about societal issues.

Name three.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What would you define "modern feminism as a whole" as? Do you realize that egalitarian and/or sex-positive feminists are considered anti-feminist by nearly all mainstream feminist outlets? Have you notseenthis puritanical attitude reflected in the media these past 6 years?

Modern feminism as a whole is exactly what it should mean: everyone who is a feminist. Just because someone claims to be a feminist doesn't make them a feminist, and someone who doesn't claim to be a feminist could certainly be a feminist, but there's nothing cryptic or hard to understand about feminism. Some feminists can be bigoted. Some feminists can be racist. Some feminists can be psychopaths. They are also a part of the whole, but they do not define it.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Modern feminism as a whole is exactly what it should mean: everyone who is a feminist. Just because someone claims to be a feminist doesn't make them a feminist, and someone who doesn't claim to be a feminist could certainly be a feminist, but there's nothing cryptic or hard to understand about feminism. Some feminists can be bigoted. Some feminists can be racist. Some feminists can be psychopaths. They are also a part of the whole, but they do not define it.

Feminism is a broad term. You need to be more specific. Most reasonable self-proclaimed feminists are actually egalitarian feminists which is a redundant term in that context so they are simply egalitarian.

I feel like we are going in circles again.

Why are you so obsessed with using the feminist label in the egalitarian context?

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Name three.

Rape and sexual consent, racism, gender identification.

I can keep going. Pornography, non-pornographic objectification, sexual orientation, sexual violence, systematic/structural oppression, heteronormativity and how it defines societal standards/class structure, prostitution, language and terminology designed/used to denigrate women and minorities, unrealistic standards of beauty/weight perpetuated by the media.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

I meant name three individuals...

...but since you brought it up...

More men get raped than women yet "don't drop the soap" is somehow different from a 'rape joke'. Sexual consent is a joke thanks to modern feminism (see: California law defining consent)
Unbridled hate of white people is accepted and even encouraged.
Gender identification is not a hard science and next to nothing is known about gender dysmorphia so addressing it would be like addressing cold fusion, more info required, until then nothing can be done.

You then went on to say pornography was an 'issue' and I stopped reading.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by KagatobLuvsAnimu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Feminism is a broad term. You need to be more specific. Most reasonable self-proclaimed feminists are actually egalitarian feminists which is a redundant term in that context so they are simply egalitarian.

I feel like we are going in circles again.

Why are you so obsessed with using the feminist label in the egalitarian context?

Everyone who is a feminist is as specific as I can get. I kinda feel like you're just trying to change the definition of feminism to exactly what you want it to mean, and it doesn't work like that. I'm sure my specific idea of the truest form of feminism is very different from the reality of feminism, but I'm not gonna go around saying this person isn't or that person is a feminist.

I guess that would have to be defined by a person's actions rather than the things they espouse, so there's no real way to determine to one another who is truly a feminist or who is not. If someone rapes a person, they certainly aren't a feminist, even if they've read and championed the writing of Andrea Dworkin every day of their life. They could certainly change their ways, and become a feminist later in life, but if one day someone is released from jail on a sexual assault charge and then claims to be a feminist the next, I'm going to very dubious of them, to say the least.