Does God / a supreme being exist?

[quellren]

Originally Posted by Tajin898 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Catholic church didn't remove any books, rather they added apocryhpal books at the Council of Trent largely in response to the Protestant Reformation.

That's a matter of semantics... the Catholic Church only canonized the parts they wanted in response to the Protestant Reformation. At one time, the bible contained several more books that are not part of the standard bible today. The Catholic church only officially sanctioned the parts of the bible they deemed worthy, starting with the Council of Hippo around 390 AD. Thus, they in essence edited the bible to suit their theology.

Originally Posted by Tajin898 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't ignored as much as they were seen as tools, mainly translational tools. The Dead Sea Scrolls contained a majority amount of Apocryphal writings, and the biblical manuscripts they did contain gave scholars a great resource by extended the Bible's manuscript history back by a millennium (which made it possible to even more accurately determine the Bible's integrity of preservation and transmission).

So if you agree that they were relevant to the bible, why did the authorities deem it appropriate to paraphrase them and not just include them as more of the 'word of god'? Kinda negates the validity of being from his mouth if it's paraphrased by man.

[bionicbadger]

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by Slade_the_Slide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please show us! I mean if you have evidence that would convince any/everyone why not share it with the world? Every news station would love to broadcast such evidence. Take it to Richard Dawkins and all others. You alone could hold the key to showing the whole world god does exist! What are you waiting for!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?![You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please show me where I claim I can prove the existence of God. All I am doing is stating the 100% factual statement that there is evidence of the existence of God, namely the eye witness accounts that have been passed down to us. As I have said again and again, this doesn't necessarily prove the existence of God, it merely shows that those who say "there is 0 evidence" are incorrect. Whether you choose to believe that evidence is convincing or not has nothing to do with my argument.

Originally Posted by Slade_the_Slide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Using the Bible as evidence of God is circular. God must be realz coz the bible done says so! The bibles is right because God wrote it!!!!

And using Job of all books...wow. What better way to show God's a humongous raging asshole than the book of Job. If God does exist, I hope it's not that douchebag.

It is not circular, the argument is contained within itself. People saw God, or what they thought was God, and passed along stories. Those stories were collected in an anthology. If you believe the stories, then of course you believe in God. If you believe in God, then of course you believe the stories because that is where the belief came from. Neither belief leads to the other belief, they exist simultaneously.

The Christian concept of God is far beyond the comprehension of humans. He isn't an ass, he is unknowable.

[nukem419]

Here's the two main issues I have with the whole god thing.

Morality: Religions tend to treat this whole issue by using axioms delivered to us either directly by god or indirectly though a prophet. If you ask a follower of a given faith why can't you break such and such rule they will respond with a simple "because god said so". I believe this is wrong, god in a moral context is not automatically granted special immunity because he has super powers. It's a two way street and he has to play by his own rules. With that in mind morality takes on a more philosophical role and must operate inside an alternate mode such as a social contract even in the presence of a god. I believe Buddha once said that even the gods are bound by karma.

Genuine good and evil requires free will. Humans exist inside of a dynamic and through a never ending cycle of cause and effect this dynamic defines who we are from one second to the next. It is through this process that we are able to make choices. in it's simplist form there are only 4 objects of concern in this dynamic. An input, a state, an output, and rules. if any three are know the forth can be determined.
Because of this device it is possible to predict with absolute certainty the future choices of a person if all other variables are taken into account. However, if all of our future actions are deterministic in nature how can we have a free will?


With that in mind it doesn't really matter if god exists or not, it doesn't change anything for us down here.

[Slade_the_Slide]

Originally Posted by Dukat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe in a supreme being though I do not subscribe to any organized religion. In my opinion, just as the cells of our body are each individually alive and yet create a much larger human organism, we and our planet and everything else are part of something much larger than anything we can ever realistically imagine. That something would have to be God.

Cool concept, but we've seen outside of our world. Unless the universe itself is one giant sentient being, then this is also a false claim. But that's the closest to a supreme being as we'd get.

[Slade_the_Slide]

Originally Posted by Bojangles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not circular, the argument is contained within itself. People saw God, or what they thought was God, and passed along stories. Those stories were collected in an anthology. If you believe the stories, then of course you believe in God. If you believe in God, then of course you believe the stories because that is where the belief came from. Neither belief leads to the other belief, they exist simultaneously.

The Christian concept of God is far beyond the comprehension of humans. He isn't an ass, he is unknowable.

"He's unknowable" "He's beyond your comprehension"

Meaning, I should not be punished for not believing in such a being. I think that's the biggest cop-out argument ever. When cornered with any argument you resort to "Well, it's just beyond your understanding"

Please tell me how you know this? Don't use the Bible yet again as evidence. That's as much evidence as toilet paper.

[Bojangles]

Those 2 paragraphs were addressing 2 different arguments of yours, namely the 2 paragraphs I quoted. My para 1 is in response to your para 1, my para 2 is in response to your para 2.

You attempted to prove that God doesn't exist by saying His actions are insane. I am pointing out the counter-argument of Christians, which is that we cannot possibly understand the motivations and plans of God, therefore negating our ability to judge His actions.


Again you seem too stupid to realize I'm not arguing for the existence of God, I'm arguing that your "proofs" of his lack of existence have already been countered, and that there is evidence of the existence of God (with the level of credence given to that evidence not being relevant to the argument.)


Still waiting for you to show me where I claim I can prove the existence of God.