VP closed to Class R guilds?

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is hardly news. Agreeing to a horrible playstyle with a narrow-minded, pixel-obsessed attitude is not earning more.

You're right, that isn't earning more.

However, this is:

Originally Posted by Fanguru [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

* spend each weekend taking shifts and being on call for 48 hours
* have an arms race with trains and guildmages to see who can FTE first
* play lawyerquest

[Korben]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The current situation doesn't really allow that.

With 96-hour variance you saw basically no kills going to casual guilds because they didn't want to track for 96 hours.

Now with 16-hour variance you see again, almost no kills going to casual guilds because they don't want to track for 16 hours. Taken does on maybe 1 FFA mob a weekend. Usually one that has a favorable window. Other than that the only time other casual guilds compete on FFA mobs is very late in window and sim Repops.

Casual players don't think the reward of experiencing content and getting the best pixels is worth forcing people to stare at a wall for 16 hours until something spawns. This is why I've been trying to champion ideas that rid us of that, allowing more guilds to participate. Because nerding out and 16-hour wall staring while doing nothing else in game (see not actually PLAYING the game) shouldn't be required to experience the competitive side. Competitive is not synonymous with monotonous and tedious.

To address your latest post in raid discussions. The reason people don't stop socking is because people will walk as close to the line as possible and barely step over it enough to warrant a warning and not a ban. That's what this server does.

If you want to stop poopsocking, clear rules must be put in place. (IE - No more than 2 players in zone when raid mob spawns or DQ'd). Otherwise, people will get in that grey area as much as possible. And those who don't are destined to lose the mob. So if you aren't in the grey area of poopsocking you basically have no chance at the mob. Most evident on indoor dragons/raid mobs.

ALL of this goes away if you go to no respawn windows and just full repops. People don't have windows to sock, instead just respawns. That will foster the most competitive environment on FFA spawns that doesn't reward neckbearding and staring at a wall for 16 hours.

Well look at that, someone actually making sense

[Fael]

raid scene def sucks right now and is more onerous than ever.

I will give you all that.

[heartbrand]

Holocaust recruiting on Red99, VP and all mobs on lockdown, as will be Velious. Come experience raid content without being cock blocked by a rule book longer than the Affordable Health Care Act.

[mattkwi]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Casual players don't think the reward of experiencing content and getting the best pixels is worth forcing people to stare at a wall for 16 hours until something spawns.

yet we still religiously see class R guild members camping RS, PS, and other super rare VP key pieces (that take hours and hours in most cases) and sitting in cash/item camps for hours for items.


It is the same concept. Just waiting for a 32k hp dragon instead of random_loot_dropping_mob01. Bad argument.

also this is how EQ has always been. Imagine if they did fableds on this server..

[Daldaen]

Unless you make rules black and white, they are nothing more than polite suggestions on this server. And polite suggestions don't do anything in this raid scene. I wish they did but they don't.

Going back to 96-hour variance would do nothing but reward the very people who perpetrate the majority (bolded for emphasis that they are not the sole perpetrators) of this behavior, by removing any remote possibility that casual guilds will compete and contemplate jumping up to Class C. None of them presently have the desire to track multiple targets for 16 hours. Going up to 96 will just make it a hell no.

Sirken, if your goal is competition with no poopsocking you have some realistic options:

1. You make rules about poopsocking. Currently those are limited to you cannot bind or camp on spawns, cannot have people in planar zones clearing when mob spawns, cannot have people "near" spawn other than 2 trackers in all other zones.

These rules must remove the grey area of "near" and "poopsock". With clearly defined language. Something like: you may not have more than 4 people present in zone when it spawns. Otherwise you are DQ'd. If you have more than 4, and get FTE and kill that mob, you are raid suspended for 2 week.

It needs to be real punishment that deters people from doing it. In the words of Louis CK "The reason murder isn't common is because it REALLY sucks getting caught murdering". Make it REALLY suck violating poopsock rules.

With new, and black and white rules, reduce variance. You will begin to see casual guilds appearing for FFA mobs if variance is reduced down a lot. 4 hours you may see one or two guilds. 60-30 min you may see 2 Class C and 3-4 Class R guilds competing for mobs.

2. You remove the ability of people to poopsock by changing the spawning mechanic (Respawns that are unannounced, have 6~ a month, and try to make it proportional to player activity. 3 during prime time US, 1 during late night US time, 1 during euro prime time, 1 during early morning/asian time roughly)

#2 clearly removes the necessity for most rules and will reduce the number of petitions from raids. I don't see why this isn't a favorable options from the GMs standpoint, especially if respawns are something you can automate. Currently I thought it was a manual trigger Rogean had to pull but I dunno if that's still the case.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by mattkwi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yet we still religiously see class R guild members camping RS, PS, and other super rare VP key pieces (that take hours and hours in most cases) and sitting in cash/item camps for hours for items.


It is the same concept. Just waiting for a 32k hp dragon instead of random_loot_dropping_mob01. Bad argument.

also this is how EQ has always been. Imagine if they did fableds on this server..

Cash/Item camps you are clearing a PHer every 20 min or clearing several mobs plus a PHer. That's playing the game. Although it is extremely boring to kill one mob every X minutes... It is still requiring you do something in game to get that mob to spawn and get those pixels.

Raid mobs have no PH. They require no input from the players to spawn. They are just timed spawns. Staring at a wall for 16 hours, literally having to cast no spells, and do nothing to your character other than stare... Is not playing the game and not comparable to PS or RS at all.

Killing the dragon for sure requires you play the game. And class R has shown they are willing to kill dragons and play the game. They are not willing to stare at the wall for 16 hours waiting for it to spawn to then hope they get FTE.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by mattkwi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and sitting in cash/item camps for hours for items.

Nah, you are probably just assuming everyone AFK camps stuff like TMO. I was in a full group camping the spore king on his spawn point last weekend and it was really fun - constant action. HS South is also great fun in a mid size group. You cannot seriously be comparing that to coh ducking or jav spamming or even just sitting there at the VP pad.

Originally Posted by Sirken

not everyone may agree with this, but this is the position of the staff.

So you have created a bunch of artificial, non-classic timesinks, and the people who are willing to jump through those hoops are better players? I mean if variance was classic I would agree with you 100%, but it isn't. I really wish the staff would focus on making competition fun instead of making sure Class C gets sufficient pixels. There are so many things to try (huge variance but mobs shout to the zone/server when they spawn, minirepops, more repops with half the loot table on each mob, whatever). None of those are any less classic than what we have here.

Also, IIRC the new raid agreement included 3 repops per month or more? We have only been getting like 2. Thats a fairly substantial difference and everyone agrees the repops are the best part of raiding currently.

[Erati]

They would prefer the players 'behave' rather than have them be told black and white guidelines what to do

It makes EQ a little more EQ having some free will, but at this point, with Velious still not out....some more heavy handed direction may be in order especially if the Devs/Staff are interested in opening up the FFA raid scene into a more competitive and less inclusive atmosphere for all

It does seem odd that the pixel count for Class C is the top priority for any change implemented, its an emulated server who cares if they miss out on 10% of potential pixel intake, especially when 'the best' pixels remain intact

[quido]

Maybe it's the fact that carebearing a bunch of lazy crybabies isn't one of their priorities.