The Current Raid Environment

[Ella`Ella]

TMO has no further official comment in this thread - take it to RnF.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by jpetrick [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everquest is a game where you wait for things. You are asking people to not play the game. We are simply asking to wait a shorter amount of time for things.

I will restate the point of the whole "stop the sock" post, then - I know not all the guilds were present for the raid talks, the specific one being referred to was the final one where everyone asked for lowered variance. The meeting was basically finished (the real world equivalent of picking up your briefcases and walking out the door) when almost in unison everyone made this request.

We paused for a moment, and then told everyone present that we would promise to get Rogean to lower the variance windows if - and only if everyone stopped with the massive, force sized sockfests. an eager cry of "yes!" "of course!" "absolutely we can do that" rang out among the crowd.

a month later everyone was sitting at KC entrance stinkin up the place with a 80 man sockfest for VS.

obviously theres a difference between your two trackers exchanging socks waiting for a spawn and 3/4's of a guild waiting at Kc entrance with two other guilds' forces. Everyone did really well for a while and then it fell apart.

We just want the current variance to be able to stay based on your guys' own agreement to stop socking - an agreement everyone made with this system in place and this system alone - there were no stipulations of - well, we will stop the sock if xyz happens to abc.....

[arsenalpow]

So this problem is two fold. First you have class C (with the staff holding this mindset as well) saying to "compete" if you want something. That's always been the mantra, work harder nerds. Secondly, there's no line of demarcation between competing and holy shit you guys are sociopaths.

It's an arms race and the line will continually get pushed. Right now we're at the absurd place of coth mages ducking their spells to gain a fraction of a headstart and FTEers being pointed directly at their intended target ahead of time and auto running to hit the ground running after being summoned.

The sock was on the spawn point, then we moved it to the login screen, then we moved it to the zoneline, and now people want to move it one zone over. The socking will never change, it hasn't in almost 5 years.

If you want to remove socking remove the FFA tier. It is literally the only thing that is currently causing socking. Don't ask C and R to agree, don't tell us there's a way to work it out, don't increase variance, don't reduce variance. Socking is a cancer that has spread alllll over the FFA cycle, cut that entire bitch out.

[Erati]

^ well said Chest.

Deru, I think part of the problem is the fact that guilds will have people in these zones during the windows.

What is considered a poopsock by the staff which is deemed frowned up?

Currently within this ruleset you are allowed ( when competing for a Raid target):

2 Trackers near the spawn point. Since things shifted to favor COHing FTEers, you will most likely also have 2 FTEers grouped with your 2 mage trackers.

so far a min of 4 people in the zone....

TMO stated they like to have someone there buffing, so ench/clr/shaman buffing the 2 FTEers....around 1 full group 6 people.

6 people seems reasonable to not call it a 'poopsock' even tho it still technically is....so where is the line drawn.

Lets continue to use the whipping boy Taken as an example here.

Just me quickly typing that and thinking, I realize that its pretty normal to expect competition to have at least a group parked at the zone line for FTEers + buffers. Considering they have far more experience/numbers/gear than any Class R roster, the only way to combat that advantage is numbers. Like Chest points out, we are constantly told to 'try harder', mostly by our own Server GM Sirken.

So if we say bring a second group for 'support', suddenly we are in the wrong for doing so.

How exactly are guilds who lack the experience, gear, roster and levels able to ever 'up the ante' in a way that is not deemed frowned upon?

We cant use numbers ( get flamed for poopsocking )
We cant use creative strats ( get flamed for ducking COH, binding, poopsock rushing )

Like I have stated in fun on-going server chat thread....the system is currently C/C/R...

The FFA tier is anything BUT FFA since apparently there is more rules to a FREE FOR ALL than there are in the Class R rotation.

Lets get rid of it and have a real FREE FOR ALL when the world shakes and swift decisions, movement, communication, coordination and tactics can be on display.

It would be a beautiful thing, and poopsocks would die instantly. I have no idea why we cant even at least 'try' it for a month.....what is the harm?

[-Catherin-]

C/R + FFA repops continues to be the easiest solution to most of the problems.

eliminates the rule book for new raid guilds entering the scene

eliminates the socking

eliminates the drama

fosters REAL competition

Class C can keep VP. And compete on a true level playing field without the lawyer's handbook on everything else.


You want the socking to stop at the same time that you want people to compete and try harder. this is an obvious answer to it all



Also I am not the leader of Taken and I don't get why certain individuals and guilds keep saying this while pointing fingers at me. Dislike me and accuse me of what you will, but the "actual" leader of Taken is Fearstalker.

So if you have some sort of grievance against me then try taking it up with him. I follow his instructions. And if he actually agrees with you that I have been somehow out of line I can promise you that I will be dealt with. Good luck.

[jpetrick]

Everquest raiding is basically a virtual chat room until you have a target. Your posts about not wanting people to wait around on a mob are delusional. There is nothing else to do with your character except wait around on a mob and talk to people. People want to play Everquest you want them to play another game it seems.

[bktroost]

So, drama aside, it actually seems like all the guilds here are of one mind in regards to the necessity of utilizing certain tactics in the FFA scene and we also are of one mind in saying none of us like them. We all seem to consider them a necessary evil. If that is true, what action must the guild leaders of p99 do to motive the GMs to consider rehandling the FFA rotation slot?

Would it take a written petition signed by the guild leaders? Would we be allowed a trial period of C/R/C/R-repop FFA? Is there any possibility of considering this, given the unified concern across the guilds?

[Pint]

Unpopular opinion here but getting rid of the ffa portion of the cycle and just giving us more free mobs is only appealing bc its more free mobs that we don't have to do jack for. The ffa portion was meant to make the classes overlap somewhat, which isn't really a bad thing, as pointed out before it has been mostly R guilds responsible for making ffa a bad experience. This is probably too extreme but maybe we could try something like absolutely no one is allowed to be in zone during an ffa window and no one is allowed to be bound in that zone/gate into that zone. Every time an ffa mob spawns it is announced server wide so that every guild knows the mob spawned at the exact same time and then the race is on. If someone from a guild is in zone at the time of the pop then that guild is disqualified for that encounter. I definitely took it to an extreme, but that would be a literal free for all. Maybe even make it where a mob in ffa changes window from 16 hrs to any time within the week so that ppl have more trouble coordinating alt armies for a week in tt or dl etc.

[Erati]

Just very telling to me that most the answers to 'stop the sock' has to do with keeping X number of people in the zone to a finite number.

These type of solutions are not only impossible in a practical means, but also near impossible to enforce.

Why do we want to go from one bandaid solution to another?

R/C FFA = repop is not 'more free mobs' in the slightest. Asgard has to race everyone else for their 'free' pixels on the FFA repop without having to put up with the restrictions of either needing a COH mage or limiting their members to not be in zones to bag a FFA kill.

3 months of mage tracking did not erase 3 years of the attitude which cockblocked the server.

3 months of mage tracking did not invent the idea of poopsocking

3 months of mage tracking did not create the tactic of 'spam targeting' while you track

however those who feel my guild is responsible for this all continue to blindly tote your pitchforks and torches.

[Pint]

man.. in what way is taking 1/3 of the pie and splitting it between the 2 classes not going to result in asgard getting more free mobs. R mobs are free mobs man, we dont have to pretend otherwise just bc this is a public forum.

i totally agree that 3 months of mage tracking didnt erase 3 years of cockblocking and ill will towards tmo, but i will say that my personal opinions regarding each of the established guilds on this server pre raid change have changed. the finger consistently got pointed at tmo for a reason, it is also consistently being pointed at taken for a reason.

ive definitely officially done my part in making myself look bad today so i will step away unless this thread starts to bear fruit.