Twinkage: Warrior Advice

[Dantes]

Originally Posted by Noleafclover [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a cleric, I'd say the opposite. Health swings aren't huge enough that I have to worry about a tank dying before I can react, so I don't care about health until 39 - until then, I care about AC. At 39, added health means added mana each CH cast. And at the higher end, +strength won't avail you, your dps is horrid regardless and most of your aggro comes from procs. You're much better going for dex - re str: a certain amount of aggro is given each hit, and then on top of that for the damage. Losing strength barely changes your hits (think 1 attack per strength), it more effects your damage.

I wasn't speaking to the AC. I was talking about 5 STR of the Runed Lava Pendant vs the 25 HP you get from a Glowing Bone Collar. Both have the same AC. So, at level 50, would you rather have 25 extra HP or 5 extra STR? At level 1? Probably the 25 extra HP.

Originally Posted by William_Munny15 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never understood Warrior's that went crested over crafted

Crested shoulders have only 1 AC less than crafted, and they give 6 STA. It's a trade off. 1 point of AC vs a good amount of stamina. Skull Shaped Barbute is the same way, it's a trade off but the crafted helm stats are absolutely useless. +10 magic resist and 35 extra HP come in handy, worth the cost of losing 1 AC.

Originally Posted by Noselacri [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Consider getting a Polished Granite Tomahawk. It'll let you solo to 20 with relative ease, possibly even further with that kind of twink gear. The proc is also decent aggro and, more importantly, is an AoE aggro gainer

Is this proven? People say the rampage effect on the Axe of the Slayers generates aggro too. When I'm using it, mobs just ignore me until I get my Obsidian Shards back out. If anything, it generates aggro from big damage but that's all I've noticed. It would be cool to get some background on this. Was it ever officially disclosed or is this one of those old EQ rumors? Or is this just how it works on P99?

Originally Posted by Ridic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Use Tentacle Whips till 16, Obsidian Shards till 25, Gnoll Hide Lariats till 37, and Yaks at 37.

I've got both shards and lariats, and I notice much better aggro from Obsidian Shards. I'm not sure what others have to say about it, but it has been my experience that I'm pissing off more mobs with Obsidian Shatter than I am with the stun from the Lariats. They're good to have as backups if you need to stun healer mobs, or if you just can't afford shards.

[Mollusc_Munchies]

If you decide to go as an evil race, you may want to ditch one of your Diamondine earrings, and go with an Ivandyr's Hoop, 6ac is pretty hot, and you get a small amount of hp.

Sniffles

[Fawqueue]

Awesome guys, thanks for all the info so far! I suppose when I first posted this, I had a conflict of ideas in the back of my mind. My warrior friend does have the two obsidian shards, I think I was going back and forth as I wrote this about what's ideal at level 1 vs what would be ideal pre-raid at level 50.

All the repsonses have left me with a few questions though.

1) Comparing earrings: Is the Golden Black Sapphire (25hp) actually better than the Diamondine (2ac, 12hp, 3str)? It comes down to 13hp vs 2ac and 3str...my inexperienced melee mind would say the extra ac alone is worth that small amount of hp. But that's why I'm here, to talk to the pros!

2) I was wrong about the neck...thought he was using the Runed Lava Pendant I'd given him..but he has a Golden Opal Amulet (9STA, 6AGI). What's the conversion of Stamina to HP at level 1? And 50? I imagine it's low enough that the Black Sapphire with the 55hp is superior at level 1, but is the 55hp still more than the 9 stamina would give at level 50? Just curious which he'll end up with when all is said and done.

3) I admit I hadn't considered AC and Dex as highly as it seems I should have. With that in mind, my friend rolled a barbarian (I tried to talk him into Ogre, but he wouldn't listen to reason). Right now his Dexterity is 70, and he's equipped with everything I mentioned in the OP. For now i will have him use crafted vambraces instead of the mithril arms, get a grotesque mask, replace the hero bracer with another granite, and drop the hooded black cloak for a cloak of shadows. Is there anything else specifically I should swap to make him a more efficient tank now/later?

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Fawqueue [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) Comparing earrings: Is the Golden Black Sapphire (25hp) actually better than the Diamondine (2ac, 12hp, 3str)? It comes down to 13hp vs 2ac and 3str...my inexperienced melee mind would say the extra ac alone is worth that small amount of hp. But that's why I'm here, to talk to the pros!

2) I was wrong about the neck...thought he was using the Runed Lava Pendant I'd given him..but he has a Golden Opal Amulet (9STA, 6AGI). What's the conversion of Stamina to HP at level 1? And 50? I imagine it's low enough that the Black Sapphire with the 55hp is superior at level 1, but is the 55hp still more than the 9 stamina would give at level 50? Just curious which he'll end up with when all is said and done.

3) I admit I hadn't considered AC and Dex as highly as it seems I should have. With that in mind, my friend rolled a barbarian (I tried to talk him into Ogre, but he wouldn't listen to reason). Right now his Dexterity is 70, and he's equipped with everything I mentioned in the OP. For now i will have him use crafted vambraces instead of the mithril arms, get a grotesque mask, replace the hero bracer with another granite, and drop the hooded black cloak for a cloak of shadows. Is there anything else specifically I should swap to make him a more efficient tank now/later?

1. ) Golden Black Sapphire Earrings are 2ac 35hp 25mana. That's the one you want, it's no contest over the diamondines, esp if it's a large race warrior.

2. ) The Golden Opal Amulet is like 80pp... The Black Sapphire Neck is 7000pp. Consider the extra agility a gift. It's super hard to justify the extra expense, this would be the first concession i would make, even if technically you'll end up with more hps at even lvl 50 using the plat black sapphire neck.

3. ) 70 is pretty yikes for DEX. You might even consider a Golden Black Pearl Choker (7agi/7dex) in the neck slot. Grot Mask is pretty much your only salvation, besides maybe Dwarven Work Boots and the Cloak of Shadows you mentioned. There's simply not a lot of dex gear out there for warriors that doesn't call for a huge AC/HP compromise.

Easiest soluton:

4. ) Don't group with monks/rogues/rangers. Use whatever weapons/gear you want.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Omnimorph [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You proc at the same rate when slowed, it's just the swings / proc ratio is lower when slowed, so if you were to riposte (or say use a riposte disc) then you'd proc more due to the increased chance to proc per swing.

T'is why people would slow themselves when shakerpaging.

I miss that so much.

Okay, quick recap since some people have /agree'd with me while stating some things contradictory to what I posted.

Omni has the right of it here, but I think it can be stated more plainly.

On live (and unless the coding is inaccurate on P99) your attack speed has NO impact on the number of times you will proc in a given span of time. With a few specific exceptions (read: Bloodfrenzy and a few other non-classic weapons) all proc'ing weapons are designed to proc at a certain frequency (procs/time) not (procs/swing). If you get hasted, your chance to proc on any given swing will go down to compensate. If you get slowed, your chance to proc on any given swing will increase to compensate. In all cases, if you do a nice long parse, you will have the same number of procs (within statistical error, obv) in a given period of time.

Iirc, at level 60 with 255 dex, most weapons would proc about 2/min in the main hand and 1/min in the offhand. There was a lot of good work done researching this on The Steel Warrior back in the day. I'm sure a few searches will yield more background info if anyone is curious.

That said, I would be interested in doing some detailed testing on this server (or reading someone else's results and methodology). My experience on this server leads me to believe that procs are a little more common on P99 than live, so the mechanics might be a bit different.

So, FBSS = 21% more weapon dps and 21% more aggro from swings, but 0% more procs.

[Gawain]

Originally Posted by Dumesh Uhl'Belk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I miss that so much.

Okay, quick recap since some people have /agree'd with me while stating some things contradictory to what I posted.

Omni has the right of it here, but I think it can be stated more plainly.

On live (and unless the coding is inaccurate on P99) your attack speed has NO impact on the number of times you will proc in a given span of time. With a few specific exceptions (read: Bloodfrenzy and a few other non-classic weapons) all proc'ing weapons are designed to proc at a certain frequency (procs/time) not (procs/swing). If you get hasted, your chance to proc on any given swing will go down to compensate. If you get slowed, your chance to proc on any given swing will increase to compensate. In all cases, if you do a nice long parse, you will have the same number of procs (within statistical error, obv) in a given period of time.

Iirc, at level 60 with 255 dex, most weapons would proc about 2/min in the main hand and 1/min in the offhand. There was a lot of good work done researching this on The Steel Warrior back in the day. I'm sure a few searches will yield more background info if anyone is curious.

That said, I would be interested in doing some detailed testing on this server (or reading someone else's results and methodology). My experience on this server leads me to believe that procs are a little more common on P99 than live, so the mechanics might be a bit different.

So, FBSS = 21% more weapon dps and 21% more aggro from swings, but 0% more procs.

I thought procs were based off of a probably of swing coupled with dex... meaning the more swings = higher probability it would proc? So haste would = more swings and a higher chance of proc?

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Gawain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought procs were based off of a probably of swing coupled with dex... meaning the more swings = higher probability it would proc? So haste would = more swings and a higher chance of proc?

no, the only thing that affects proc rate is dex. Haste itself has no influence on procs-per-minute.

[Noleafclover]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wasn't speaking to the AC. I was talking about 5 STR of the Runed Lava Pendant vs the 25 HP you get from a Glowing Bone Collar. Both have the same AC. So, at level 50, would you rather have 25 extra HP or 5 extra STR? At level 1? Probably the 25 extra HP.

You misunderstand the point of my mentioning AC. You said "the 25 hp is a lot more at level one than at level 50, at lv. 50 you might rather have the extra 5 str."

My point is that if you group, which you will as a warrior, you generally have enough health in BANDED to avoid major hp swings from all but the meanest pull or worst afk healer.

Thus, as a cleric, IDGAF about your hp until I'm lv. 39; and then it's almost all I care about for mana efficiency, so, to me, the 25 hp is a lot more at lv. 50 than lv. 1 (exaggerated - at literal lv. 1, this is not quite true, but by lv. 10).

I'm advocating survivability over strength at later stages on almost any item selection, unless the ratios are ridiculously skewed and there's nothing good for survivability in the slot. I can't think of a case like this.



I fail at multi-quoting - bubbles:

4. ) Don't group with monks/rogues/rangers. Use whatever weapons/gear you want.

Or just yell at your monks to feign in combat and your rogues to feint. It's not like their jobs while in combat are that hard. Use assist. Hit flying kick/backstab. Hit combat feign (if any monks or rogues reading this, /attack off. /doability x. /sit. /attack on. .... obv no /sit for rogues). Don't hit intimidate.

Rangers should be able to manage their aggro w/ root well enough too. It should really be just the chanters, bards, necros, mages, and wizzies you gotta watch. In a better world.

[Gawain]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no, the only thing that affects proc rate is dex. Haste itself has no influence on procs-per-minute.

So, if person a has a 100 delay weapon vs person b having a 10 delay weapon and dex are fixed at say 100, they'd proc the same amount of times plus or minus 1 within an hour? Seems counterintuitive, but I guess it could be true. Learn something new everyday.

[Gawain]

And to further ask, if swings didn't play a part, then why would an offhand weapon proc less than a mainhand weapon? Not calling anyone out, I'm just wondering.