Most Valuable Class

[webrunner5]

Yeah, but like it has been said, if the Tank or the healer leaves the group is pretty much over with. I know people will say well hell the Enchanter can charm and the group goes on is full of shit. I have been playing this game non stop since early 2000. It rarely works that way. The group is finished plain and simple. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Mehrk]

Originally Posted by bridgetroll [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In your experience, what class, when played masterfully, can bring out the best in a group?

More of a "Which class, when played by a master, can take a group to the next level?" I know that's vague, but I'm interested to see what some of the veterans on here have to say.

This is the real question. Not "which class is the most valuable." The question is which class makes the group as a whole operate more efficiently. This question automatically reduces the options greatly as many classes don't generally do jack shit.

Enchanters are the only caster that does anything relevantly intelligent in a group.

Shamans and occasionally a good druid are the only priests, but shamans do way more. Sorry druids, my main on live was one until late SoL and was on p99 till kunark. Clerics sit on their ass and drink cheetoh flavored mountain dew. Their value is equal to a wooden sipping bird placed over a CH hotkey.

Melee dps are mostly afk with their cat sitting on autoattack. Monks can pull, but so can bards.

Tanks aren't even necessary in a good group for group content.

Bards are really a class of their own as their melee is too piss-poor to be considered melee dps.

Basically the question comes down to "Is enchanter, shaman or bard the best class in a typical group?"

Overall, a knowledgeable bard should bring more to your typical party than any other class. When I say typical I mean not a static group but with random makeups every time. Part of what they bring to a group is the fact that you no longer need certain other classes to function at a higher level, as they can cover many roles in absence of another.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Destron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The way I took the question was what class has the most upside when played to it's fullest.

To me that is bard hands down. The problem is there are so few on this server that as a whole we have a very bad reputation of kiting to 60 and not knowing how to group. Stereotypes are there for a reason but I still think a bard that is properly played is a great addition to a group.

I'm a bard and if I can get in a group with a chanter, its gg. Double CC and Double charm is unstoppable. Pull two, charm one, chanter has a charmed pet. My pet charmed until the first mob dies. Mez pet, go pull another two, charm one. Continue that for quite a while until we start to run into mana issues. Most groups split up before I ever run into mana issues.

Bards can impact a group more than any class hands down when played properly.

I have played a bard (and yes, I was good at it and constantly got comments about 'god bards are op' etc). Enchanters are just better.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Monks and other pullers. They determine whether you get raid targets 90% of the time.

As far as what class is in shortest supply, bard supply is ludicrously lower than demand.

[Dweed]

Enchanter is by far the best dps, and also makes every other class perform at max capacity via buffs. Not to mention the best CCs that enable the most efficient groups.

[Proven Guilty]

Necromancer

Heal pumps, mana dumps, FD split, "oh shit" rezzing, very good dps and pet offtanking, fear kiting if necessary, can often mez or charm if fighting near undead. Self healing. They really are my favorite addition in a group when played masterfully.

[Daldolma]

Bards are getting way too much love. They can do a lot of things, but they're really unnecessary for a group's optimal performance. An enchanter is the best class in the game for DPS, CC, and tanking (pet). A shaman is the best class in the game for slowing. A cleric is the best class in the game for healing. A monk is the best melee class in the game.

That's everything you need. There's almost never a scenario where you're going to be better off with a bard than one of the above classes. Most of the arguments people are making in favor of bards apply to enchanters, but enchanters are better at it.

The only scenarios where a bard is going to be more useful than one of the above classes is if you need Selo's (basically just for pulling raid mobs) or resist songs (basically just for raid mobs, also).

[hatelore]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Puller, tank, dps. Worth every bit of the penalty.

Very glad to see cec agrees with me on troll shadowknights! <3

[Destron]

My argument is that bards can CC just as well as chanters for 95% of camps on p99.

Bards can charm and bring dps the same way a chanter can. The bard can chain pull more efficiently than a monk at most camps. When the bard leaves the camp to go pull the group does not lose much dps.

Bards bring more to a group than any single class. When that class is played to it's full potential I don't see how you can make an argument for any other class.

Chanter a close 2nd for sure, but I think Bards have to be at the top of the list here due to the number of tools available.

[Daldolma]

Most of your premises are false. Bards can't CC as well as a good enchanter, particularly at the higher end. But even at the lower end, a good enchanter is a more effective CC'er than an equally good bard.

Bards can't charm nearly as effectively as enchanters can, either. Not even close. Their charm breaks every 3 ticks, and they can't load their pets with huge haste. They have much less control over their charms and that severely limits their charm options. Bard charm is more of a CC tool than anything else.

And your whole argument for bard chain pulling revolves around the fact that bards aren't as useful as their counterparts. You're right, the group loses far less with a bard out pulling than with a monk out pulling. Think about that.

You say bards bring more than anyone else, but that's not really a virtue unless they're the best at the things they bring. An enchanter is better at tanking, DPS, CC, and haste. The things that set a bard apart are Selo's and resist songs, but those aren't terribly useful in a group setting. Hell, a ranger can tank, heal, snare, CC (root), buff, slow (with epic), and DPS. But they suck at all of it.