What is BDA doing to work towards a raid agreement?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to rethink the wheel. Divinity came up with a very detailed plan and we put our support behind it.

That same plan was also agreed to by every guild except TMO and FE. Even IB signed off on it initially.

Every plan that has been proposed since by FE, Sirken, and Derubael have all had the same characteristics. Tiers to restrict the choice mobs from the casual crowd, poison pill clauses that drag guilds into the FFA shitshow against their will, inequitable splits on mobs, or all of the above. Proposing plans under different names with the same inherent characteristics isn't negotiating, it's a ruse.

There are two sides to this argument. Those who support a hardcore mindset, and those who support the casual mindset. Each side not budging is the fault of each side, not a specific party or a faction within a specific party.

hey, mine has tiers and it restricts nothing.

[Vandy]

Originally Posted by Anicheck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tier Lock Options - Anichek's edits/comments in RED

Tier 1 Mobs: Veeshan’s Peak
Tier 2 Mobs: Trak, CT, VS, Inny, Draco, Gore, Fay, Tal, Sev, Noble, Naggy, Vox


Proposal D: Tier Rotations with Tier Lock

• For the first 12 full days of every month, each tier will have staff enforced internal rotations. During this period of time, no guild may engage a mob that is not in its respective tier.
I have a concern about 10 days, but I also don't think that you will agree to 14-15 days. In order to make an educated decision, we need to know what's EXACTLY happening with variance - but I'd push for 12 days and hope that the improvement in variance makes more mobs available on both sides of the period.

• The rest of the month (Starting on the 13th at 12:01am EST: GMT-5) is FFA - No guild is excluded from any tiered mob.
Starting on the 13th at 12:01am EST: GMT-5 (plus your math is wrong if you start on the 10th at 12:01am you only gave 9 days)

Proposal E: Tier FFA with Tier Lock

• For the first 10 days of every month, each guild will be limited to the mobs within its respective tier under FFA conditions (or any conditions the respective tiers wish to work out amongst themselves). During this period of time, no guild may engage a mob that is not in its respective tier.
• The rest of the month (Starting on the 13th at 12:01am EST: GMT-5) is FFA - No guild is excluded from any tiered mob.
Same as above for Tier Rotations but FFA inside each Tier. The issue with rotations inside each Tier is that Server Staff is likely going to REQUIRE Tier mobility and entry. There's simply not enough mobs to hand out to 10-14-hell 20 Tier 2 guilds in 10-12 or even 14 days. I more support the bag limit concept - say 4 or 5 kills as the limit in the Tiered Lockout period for T2.

Restrictions to entering Tier One rotation:

• Guild must have existed for at least 2 months;
• When a guild has killed Trakanon, Inny, CT, VS, it is locked into Tier One until the expiration of the entire 30 day period.
This needs to be tweaked. I'd say any guild killing 3+ during the Tiered lock bag limit period would have to move up the following month (after the FFA period as well) - so if a guild is making a push to go to VP they actually have 30 days to ramp up by bagging out on Trak and seriously pushing during the server FFA period.

• If a guild fails to kill Trakanon, Inny, CT, or VS in a 30 day period, it is automatically moved to Tier Two for the next 30 day period.
I have no problem with this - it means you technically can push yourself out of T1 by just laying off those mobs for a month...and this only comes into play if my previously mentioned progression up to T1 tweak is applied.

Restrictions to entering Tier Two rotation:

• Guild must have existed for at least 2 months;
• Guild must have killed the Spiroc Lord in the Plane of Sky in the 30 day period previous to entering the Tier
Need to add the requirement he lists in his other option- quoting Sloan
• Guild must have killed at least one of the Tier One or Tier Two listed mobs under any condition in a one month period or risk being removed from the Tier Two bracket.

Simulated Patch Day Repops would not change anything. if the repop happens in the first 10 days of the month, they are to be handled as the above Proposals outline.
Recommended bag limits : VP (no bag limit) + 2 other mobs. Once bag limit is reached, you are on engagement lock out for 3 hours on any other raid mobs, but once 3 hours has passed you are completely FFA to engage any remaining respawns. This provides protection, should the T1 guilds opt to agree to leave VP and kill world spawns first, that they bag out at 2 each and then are locked out of VP and all other raid spawns as well. Puts a little gamesmanship into it PLUS insulates both sides of the argument

Side Rules:

• anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a four week raid suspension along with their guild;
• respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.
This is good - but add a 60 day probationary period for once you come off of your four week raid suspension. If you do it AGAIN inside the 60 day probationary window, you are re-suspended for the remainder of the probationary period PLUS 60 more days. After that, probationary for a year, any infractions move you out of the raid scene permanently.

Okay guys, this is just what brainstormed up after a bit of reflection on Sloan's plans. Feedback? Keep in mind I'm not proposing this officially on behalf of anyone - I'm just brainstorming what I see as potential barriers, and offering potential solutions.

Originally Posted by sanluen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanthallas View Post

Tier Lock Options

Tier 1 Mobs: Veeshan’s Peak
Tier 2 Mobs: Trak, CT, VS, Inny, Draco, Gore, Fay, Tal, Sev, Noble, Naggy, Vox

Proposal D: Tier Rotations with Tier Lock

• For the first 10 days of every month, each tier will have staff enforced internal rotations. During this period of time, no guild may engage a mob that is not in its respective tier.
• The rest of the month (Starting on the 10th at 12:01am EST: GMT-5) is FFA - No guild is excluded from any tiered mob.

Proposal E: Tier FFA with Tier Lock

• For the first 10 days of every month, each guild will be limited to the mobs within its respective tier under FFA conditions (or any conditions the respective tiers wish to work out amongst themselves). During this period of time, no guild may engage a mob that is not in its respective tier.
• The rest of the month (Starting on the 10th at 12:01am EST: GMT-5) is FFA - No guild is excluded from any tiered mob.

Restrictions to entering Tier One rotation:

• Guild must have existed for at least 2 months;
• When a guild has killed Trakanon, Inny, CT, VS, it is locked into Tier One until the expiration of the entire 30 day period.
• If a guild fails to kill Trakanon, Inny, CT, or VS in a 30 day period, it is automatically moved to Tier Two for the next 30 day period.
Can you clarify the restirctions for entering Tier One for me?

As I read this, youa re saying that as soon as a guild in tier 2 kills a single mob of Trak, VS, CT, Inny they are automatically moved to Tier 1 for the next month?

Also, the first portion of the month rotates these mobs from T1 to T2, so there will, in theory, every month be several guilds moving up to tier 1.


I could see this plan as possibly working with 2 changes. The first being a 14 day rotation between tiers. The second being a larger requirement to move to tier 1. Killing a single mob that is already designated for tier 2 shouldn't automatically put you into tier 1. Perhaps killing 3 of those mobs (or killing 2 of then during the FFA period). Or something similar

Look at BDA just stomping their feet.... Also I don't see anywhere that it was stated each guild had to develop their own proposal.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anicheck seems to be reasonable. He's actually open to negotiating a little bit. Which is what all this is, a negotiation.

Sure, Anichek has some thoughts and that's well and good, but the modifications needed to make any of Sloan's plans adequate to the casual guilds won't fly with the hardcore scene.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, Anichek has some thoughts and that's well and good, but the modifications needed to make any of Sloan's plans adequate to the casual guilds won't fly with the hardcore scene.

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

Hitpoint, don't lie, my plan is the best. You love it.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FE member. Spare me the rhetoric

One of the most objective FE members at that. He is making a fair observation, not that it matters to you. I understand your desire for change and your hard headed approach to getting things done, though. However you have to realize any good compromise is the one in which all sides walk away feeling unsatisfied after giving up something. You can't get everything you want all the time, a lesson best learned at a young age.


Good luck either way, the attitude youre bringing to the table isn't going to change anything other than people's perception of you as an individual.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Curious what you think of Stealins plan? I think it's actually one of the best ones. For both it's simplicity and fairness. I don't like breaks where we can't kill mobs either. Hope this gets considered when you guys meet tomorrow.

I don't like the tier1/tier2/FFA rotation, a FFA target is tantamount to giving the mob directly to TMO/FE. We've all agreed that VP is the true endgame so we've all agreed to keep VP out of almost all discussions. Walling off mobs like VS and Inny from the casual guilds isn't fair to the casual guilds, they can be easily killed with two groups, they're special because they drop nice loot, not because they are hard to kill which seems to be a common argument as well (see doraf's posts in the raid forum)

[radditsu]

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My plan is still on the table

[Handull]

Thanks Sadad for a normal answer, put that in the OP.

At Vandy, not going to quote all the Chest foot stomping, waste of time for everyone.

At Chest, you don't HAVE to make your own proposal, but without reading every thread over and over, its really hard to honestly find BDA's position on things. You can think I'm just a trolling FE scum if you want, but as someone who doesn't really care and just wants to have fun (I'm having fun exping atm), I couldn't easily find your position on raiding, other than you hate all of the GM/FE/TMO plans, which you continue to make clear.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't like the tier1/tier2/FFA rotation, a FFA target is tantamount to giving the mob directly to TMO/FE. We've all agreed that VP is the true endgame so we've all agreed to keep VP out of almost all discussions. Walling off mobs like VS and Inny from the casual guilds isn't fair to the casual guilds, they can be easily killed with two groups, they're special because they drop nice loot, not because they are hard to kill which seems to be a common argument as well (see doraf's posts in the raid forum)

I do think that VS and Inny are the two mobs that tier 1 can certainly lose to tier 2 in FFA weeks. Taken has inny on lock already. VS is a mob that requires "work," but it can be done by just about anyone. Full Circle got FTE and were awarded the kill on their first attempt. I know you guys don't want to do that kind of thing, but it's at least an option if other tier 2 guilds choose to.