Raid Scene Poll

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Will need to think it over a while.

Geromy I rrespect ya dawg. Do right.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, I'm not nearly so concerned with going for an equitable distribution of mobs as I am about making the raid scene fun.

Poopsocking and huge tracking windows are simply not fun.

I agree fully. I think restricted repops are the best possible thing that casuals could have because it can be planned around, and the more competitive guilds will leave them alone to a large extent.

[heartbrand]

If only there was a server where people could compete for mobs based upon their skill and planning and not luck.

[kotton05]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree fully. I think restricted repops are the best possible thing that casuals could have because it can be planned around, and the more competitive guilds will leave them alone to a large extent.

There needs to be an incentive like trak is always a FFa and after you get like 4 in a row you get an uncontested dragon in VP

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There needs to be an incentive like trak is always a FFa and after you get like 4 in a row you get an uncontested dragon in VP

What do you mean? I'm not sure I follow you. Hardcore guilds that desire standard competition have proven they have their own incentive under the normal competitive model. The real issue is monopolization that precludes casuals. It is not an issue of incentive for casual guilds; it is an issue of accessibility. Having normal server hours remain the same with restricted repops will provide a fair playing field of accessibility for casuals who will no doubt greatly enjoy the pressure-free raiding environment it affords them.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

20 minute unhindered raid window for a competing guild to take first shot, if your guild got the previous kill. Naturally, next spawn that guild has to step aside for 20 minutes. The spawns start to distribute this way with a minimum amount of CS work.

Only one member of competing guild X in zone at spawn? Well, they got 20 minutes. Not 20 minutes to get ready, but 20 minutes to engage or lose the spawn. If they wipe, so sorry, try again next time.

This is how my guild did shit in eq1, and during the early years of eq2, when contested content still existed and was the best loot. It kept the peace. We still got 90% of the kills, and 100% of the really hard mobs.

But at least the competition had a window of opportunity. Not our problem if they could not execute.

The 20 minute window can be tuned up or down. Maybe it is too much. Maybe it is too little. A properly batphoned modern guild should be able to get online and in zone in 20 minutes, if they have their act together -- that is, they actually are hungry for that mob, and have people camped nearby and ready to log on at the ringing of the mighty batphone.

30 minutes if we want to be carebear.

This rule would not help encounters which require significant clearing. But this is an easy, low-cs rule that suits single-spawn contesteds just fine. Give the poor fuckers a shot, then when they wipe, kill it in front of them

Everyone logs off happy.

edit: I am assuming we are not looking at a situation where 3, 4, or 5 guilds are actually going to be able to muster in 20 minutes. Simpler version: if your guild got the previous spawn, any other guild who can muster and engage (not kite) in 20 minutes gets that window of time to make an unhindered attempt. If they get the kill, next spawn they are the ones who have to give the window.

I call this "giving someone the window," which sounds faintly dirty.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

20 minute unhindered raid window for a competing guild to take first shot, if your guild got the previous kill.

The issues I see here are what Loraen said. First, it does not eliminate tracking and socking. Secondly, FE and TMO can down any target in the game in under 20 minutes which essentially sets up a rotation between the two guilds that would rather compete amongst each other. Finally, this does not open the scene to casuals in any meaningful way.

[Splorf22]

Merkk, I don't think you are quite seeing the issue. Suppose you are a new player and you want to get into the raid scene on P1999.

• You get to track. 17 targets x 2 days on average -> over 800 hours per week of sitting there watching linoleum peel.
• You must join a huge guild. Not only must the tracking be distributed, but the targets can spawn 24/7, so you need to be worldwide so that you can field a decent sized force at all hours.
• You have to level/gear not just one character, but many. Mobs like Trakanon and Venril Sathir are simply impossible to get if you don't have a character camped on their spawn point.

Everyone shits on TMO because they kept farming and gearing up their 4th alts (and I can see where this is coming from) but the current raid mechanics gave them a huge incentive to do so.Basically everyone in this thread is voting for the options that will give them the most pixels. Unbrella thinks we don't need any changes because FE is build to compete under the current rules. He knows that after TMO comes back it'll basically be FE and TMO rotating targets. I don't hold that against him: everyone looks out for themselves and I look out for me. My point is: I don't care if The A-Team loses a ton of races AS LONG AS THAT COMPETITION IS BASICALLY FUN. What does that mean?:

• No tracking
• No poopsocking / massive camping of alts
• No FTE retardation with 200 people on the spawn

So how can we achieve this: simultaneous repops + reduced variance + people agreeing not to be retards about camping out characters.

/rant off.

[Lazie]

It's just good the discussion is finally being had. Do good with it guys.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What do you mean? I'm not sure I follow you. Hardcore guilds that desire standard competition have proven they have their own incentive under the normal competitive model. The real issue is monopolization that precludes casuals. It is not an issue of incentive for casual guilds; it is an issue of accessibility. Having normal server hours remain the same with restricted repops will provide a fair playing field of accessibility for casuals who will no doubt greatly enjoy the pressure-free raiding environment it affords them.

I think competition should be tiered. Bag limits like you and I suggest will accomplish this and repops will help even more.

Once a guild starts acquiring more raid loot and have practice raiding competition more in line with their own abilities, they'll grow and be able to compete for higher teired raid targets.

I'm sure <Freeport Community College> would not like to "compete" against a stacked opponent like <Inglorious Basterds> on Sev.

Edit: The reason most don't want to "compete" is because of the possibility of wasting hundreds of man hours per week for the gain of absolutely nothing. That is how p99 raiding is set up and no one can change that but the staff.