First to Engage: Exploiting the mechanic?

[Alarti0001]

Quick hide from all opinions that differ from my own!


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[Cecily]

And there's my point right there. If you don't play how Origin wants you to play in his thread, he starts crying and tells his mom you punched him.

[Mezzmur]

Originally Posted by Origin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to do the same thing. I want to stop it from happening, because the mechanic is flawed and is being exploited.

Here's an example for you:

Team A has 20 people sitting at VS while Team B has 2;
VS spawns, and Team B (for whatever reason) FTEs;
Team A has a force that can engage and kill VS, Team B doesn't;
Team B batphones and within 60 seconds DOES have a force that can kill VS;
Team A is unable to do shit because 2 people were able to FTE and stall for 1 minute.

Does that shit seem fair to you? Similar shit happened with the last Talendor. TMO ended up getting the last FTE before kill, but took 7+ minutes to kite him while more of their members logged on. He was sniped by a force that was ready to engage immediately.

Origin,

As the person who had FTE (Dumper), your force dwindled about 45min before VS spawned and you had less than 12 at that time. FE/IB had ~6 in room, and another maybe 6 over in the safe spot. Granted, you had 20+ most of the evening, but when he popped you didn't have the numbers to engage.

Additionally, I stood and fought taking full damage with no DA idol and buffs. I sat there and was prepared the whole time. You had 3 monks and at least 2 other melee in the room next to me who had just as much time and opportunity.

If you want to go back to having equal opportunity, camp everyone out in the side room and have one tracker sitting there to BP it. We only started bringing two people to fap in the room because he's being socked.

It's escalation and mutually assured destruction and it's happening on all raid targets now so the purely tracking and mobilizing model is no longer effective 90% of the time as it was 2-3 months ago.

[kotton05]

In the time of need. You succeeded. Let's talk about moving camps to lengthen pull times[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] heard the boat in td is a good way to move raid once Fay is inc

[arsenalpow]

The issue with everything is that people cannot act like civilized adults. Let's look at BDA's Vox kill yesterday as a simple example.

We (BDA) were first on the scene and began the civilized process of clearing towards Vox. TMO shows up, leapfrogs our raid force, trains everything before Vox + plus her lair out and onto our force and immediately engages Vox. We were forced to camp out our raid force and TMO wiped to adds or something. We recovered from our partial wipe and beat the dragon. I don't really care if TMO's train out strat was "accidentally" dropped on our force or as they would obviously claim we shouldn't have been in their way.

So how do you stop that behavior with rule implementation? We managed to persevere through this round of bullshit, but for every one minor raid kill we get there's another 10 incidents where this exact same type of thing happens. We need rules to address that type of behavior, the attitude that as long as the mob is alive a guild can/will do anything possible to score the kill. The punishments are not severe enough to deter the behavior. Even if we caught the accidental train red handed with some 1080p fraps and two forms of ID that one alt might get suspended for a week, it doesn't stop the machine.

We need some type of play nice policy and we need it enforced. The current mindset is "do whatever it takes" and I've even told by staff numerous times that if we don't like what TMO does to us then we should do it right back to them. Some of us want to maintain some sense of decency and decorum. We shouldn't have to lie/cheat/steal/train and pretend it's tantamount to competition. Knowing how to dodge enemy trains (in places where it's actually illegal no less) shouldn't be a condition of raiding on this server.

I don't want to poopsock, I don't even want a rotation at this point (although I see nothing wrong with it) I only want to be able to engage a target without getting trained EVERY single time. This is possible, but TMO would actually have to act like adults. Every other guild has said at one point or another that they would agree to some simple rules of engagement but TMO refuses. 10% of the server population is dictating how raiding is to be done by everyone else. We've seen Divinity move on Dojo and given them some space to make an engage, or even when it was other guilds banding together to take a shot at Naggy we didn't immediately go to leapfrog and train giants out and OOPS sorry we didn't mean to train your raid accidentally because we desperately needed FTE.

There's nothing wrong with treating others like humans and trying to show some fucking decency.

[Rellapse35]

tldr go outside

[dav]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

remove variance
let 6 guilds sit on the spawn point 15 minutes before
250 in zone, whatever
let us all realize this is dumb as fuck
let us hug it out and unite under the flowers of happiness banner

This should have been the case all along. Classic EQ is always desireable imo.

Now that we have FTE shouts, it just makes things even more clear. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[kotton05]

I watched TMO leap frog azure guard for that200th Draco.. Leading to a wipe of both sides lolz

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by kotton05 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I watched TMO leap frog azure guard for that200th Draco.. Leading to a wipe of both sides lolz

TMO updated their frontpage yesterday to celebrate their 200th Trak kill and it has their records against most raid targets. This isn't something to be celebrated because that type of greed is what will eventually kill this server. They've killed CT 105 times and trained someone in the process at least 75% of the time I'm willing to guess. How many times did they leapfrog past someone like azure guard during their 76 Naggy kills? Of course they absolutely needed their 210th draco kill, sorry random guild comprised of new people that just started to raid the planes with an average level of 53, that's TMO's raid target and you should just quit now. God forbid they let someone like Azure Guard even attempt the target before turning fear into a shitshow.

[Jaxon]

If you have enough fraps evidence the GMs will punish TMO for training and have done so in the past. The fact that they continue to train means that the punishment they're getting when they get caught probably isn't harsh enough to deter them.

If I were in TMO's shoes I'd look at it this way. We showed up late and BDA is engaging soon. If we don't train and engage now we'll lose the mob and get no loot for sure. If we train we have a chance to get FTE and the kill. The gm's won't punish us unless they get fraps evidence from BDA. Even if we get caught, it's not like they're going to kick us out of VP for training Vox. All we'll get is a slap on the wrist so it's worth it to take a chance and train.

The punishments need to ramp up exponentially every time. It's going to take a multi-month all-target raid suspension with the prospect of a year-long ban on the horizon before TMO stops pulling shenanigans like that.