Classic mechanic discussion: fast weapon/white damage aggro

[Nirgon]

I'm not talking about people running around with stave of shielding, epics at low levels as a point of interest... I have no points of interest other than a classic implementation.

Moreso this would effect warriors with 2 lammies (read: fast weapons) generating more hate, or for lowbie warriors being able to tank much better without waiting for the level their weapons start to proc. It just makes non proc weapons + fast more effective in general and currently that's not how it feels. Fast proc weapons like Willsapper were outrageously high threat. So much so our warriors (Kaukaz, Gestahl etc) in Velious were using blue epic + willsapper early and having no problems. Later they did just fine using willsapper + primal sword as primary, speed was win.

[Splorf22]

Koros thanks for the backup! Nirgon please go read a book on statistics and epistemology. Zeelot as far as I can tell your post was implemented precisely except the 1H 'modifier' here is 1.0 instead of 0.7 and the 2H modifier here is 0.7 instead of 1.1. I have no idea why.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88535

[khanable]

I for one don't think there is much wrong with the hate generation per swing.

What I do believe to be an issue is hate generation on some procs is off, and we're living in a post-WOW mmo world where people no longer give a shit about waiting for assist.

On live, folks gave me a few seconds to build up hate.

Nobody does that shit here.

I have zero issues tanking when I am grouped with mindful people.

[cs616]

I get what you're saying, but you're asking for an aggro revamp based purely on anecdotal evidence, that really serves no point. Yaks are cheaper than lammy and proc at 35? Obsidian shards are cheaper still and proc in the 20s? What non-twinked low level warrior is going to be running around with 7k in weapons (2x lammy)? So from a practical stand point it isn't going to help the players on this server, and from a "classic" stand point, there simply isn't anything beyond anecdotal evidence.

I get that you're trying to make the server more classic, but "I remember fast weapons causing more aggro" isn't what we base changes off of. You can talk about what weapons you remember players on live using all day, but again, you're asking for a change with little to no evidence that again, serves no real purpose.

I mean, just this right here:

It just makes non proc weapons + fast more effective in general and currently that's not how it feels. Fast proc weapons like Willsapper were outrageously high threat.

How something feels versus how you recollect it feeling 12 years ago isn't an argument we should be making if implementing classic mechanics is really your goal. Like wise, how can you say that willsapper had high aggro due to its speed when it proc'd a slow? I used a willsapper on progression 1.0 for months, and no one used it because it was fast. It wasn't even that fast compared to other procing weapons like baton of flame or dragonrib club. People used Willsapper because it proc'd a slow... again proc or bust.

[khanable]

Ya'll should read through these two threads:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=120110

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...d.php?t=119584

Especially towards the end as more information is dug up

Might help here

[Nirgon]

Jesus. It is sad that I get attacked by the enchanter guild farming stuff forever on because I insist something (that ends up getting patched for the better) like you shouldn't be able to charm/dictate Sirran [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

There's numerous threads about warriors complaining about their threat with procless weapons and by observation you can tell that things don't feel quite right. Many others(intelligent posters too) seem to feel the same.

It's just a general discussion thread, feel free to attack the posted patch notes regarding mage swords proc'ing on unsummoned. It certainly threatens an advantage pets (charmed ones!) should not have.

Originally Posted by cs616 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I get what you're saying, but you're asking for an aggro revamp based purely on anecdotal evidence, that really serves no point.

How something feels versus how you recollect it feeling 12 years ago isn't an argument we should be making if implementing classic mechanics is really your goal. Like wise, how can you say that willsapper had high aggro due to its speed when it proc'd a slow

No, I'm generating discussion, again, because things feel off. How about tanks keeping that primal warsword in their offhand? And not a Neb's Warbone for instance instead? I know the sapper proc'd a slow and then I go on to note that they used a weapon offhand with no threat proc.

[Splorf22]

Besides, we basically never get game mechanics fixes. I have a consolidated thread of like 10, some of which are pretty important, and I don't think I've ever gotten a dev post on any thread.

[koros]

I doubt melee threat generation was ever significantly changed? Maybe just doing some tests on EQMac would be the way to go.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Jesus. It is sad that I get attacked by the enchanter guild farming stuff forever on because I insist something (that ends up getting patched for the better) like you shouldn't be able to charm/dictate Sirran [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am criticizing you because for the millionth time your logic is somewhere between bad and nonexistent. The exact mathematics of aggro are well known. They give the effect you want: fast weapons generate substantially more melee aggro. Back in the day, Kunark lasted for 9 months. People would give the warrior a few seconds to build aggro. Not every rogue had a ragebringer. Not every monk had epic/sos/cof. The outcomes will be different. If it seems like I am ranting here, it's because I don't know how to deal with people who insist on relying on vague memories over known mathematics. And I am about as anti-intellectual a person as you will ever find.

P.S. I have always been for nerfing Sirran. And I wish our guild had more Enchanters.

[Nirgon]

We get fixes. Kanras did very big things in my opinion with opening the possibility for NPCs to add nearby players to their hatelist by proximity. That is mighty fine in my book.

Hopefully the new PvP dev can get through our list of lil fixes and join the rest of the team. Some of the PvP fixes (like dispel mechanics, buff stacking) have PvE ramifications as well [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

There's a post where I mention I'm not primarily concerned with the gear levels here, but moreso that I feel bad for warriors who buy a pair of lammies and feel pathetic in the threat department. That does not feel classic at all.

I would highly doubt anything gets changed as a result of this thread other than NPC hitting sitting players for max damage, if even that.

You disagree, thank you for your opinion. Those who do not disagree can continue down vague memory lane!