Item loot: it CAN be good for the server!

[Absynthe2k5]

Originally Posted by abacab-winner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only people that want item loot are pals that play casters exclusively, because it takes such sick skill to get sow/lev'd then running around a zone blind/nuking/rooting/dotting people to death.

You'll just have a bunch of shaman's ebolting you then taking off as you slowly die, you'll have a bunch of mages tapping Jboots and slapping earth pets on you then running away, a bunch of wizards sploiting Z-axis dropping rains on you from 1,000 ft in the sky.

Caster is ez mode PvP just like playing frost mages in WoW was ez mode PvP; when you can just perma-kite and CC melee to a point they can only get a shot in if they're lucky and score a root resist then you're setting up a failure of a server where the only time people log on their decked-out warrior is to do the mandatory weekly VP.

Except warriors faceroll most classes now, well for awhile now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] (wow not eq)

[heartbrand]

Warriors are the weakest class in WoW currently not sure what you're talking about

[dogbarf]

Item loot pls.

PvP has no rush or excitement without it.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Absynthe2k5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Very hard to balance any pvp without going the route of wow, they basically give gear out so folks will actually pvp and ya know it does work. Folks that have gladiator gear are rarely seen in BG's so most times fights are even gear wise, but those glad's usually hang out and grief all day long in open world pvp..

There are other ways to implement loot by making it good to fight evens/reds and bad to fight lower players. Enforce a decaying reward for getting killed, then move into negatives to discourage griefing, like negative points and even res like effects. If already geared they wont care about points on an alt but im sure they would hate having rez effects for 24 hours etc.

The things I see folks complain about most now are resists supposedly, game breaking clickies (which I assume they have no access to them due to not getting a decent pk/raid going themselves), and griefing.

Example Kimm keeps killing wizing cause he wasn't smart and waffle faced his keyboard. Kimm gets hit with a random effect after the 2cnd time killing wizing, 24 hour rez effect, or loses xp and pvp points, gets gated apon wizings death to jail or the middle of oot on the bottom of the ocean etc. Make it harsh so folks think twice about screwing with lower lvls. Endgame not so much but then again you wouldn't be able to grief a raid for long without your whole guild getting punished etc. (was thinking more for low lvl grief since raid/zone control is huge strategy for pvp)

Yeah, but I don't care about the balance so much as even imbalanced its fun when your not two shotted or the other guy isn't immortal. The gear issue is not an issue of balance between classes. Its an issue of balance between progression. And via twinking EQ is very easy to manipulate this way.

Your example is good, but the system would also need built in PvE detection. Because kimm was not actually killing wizing, the mobs where.

I don't think a player should be penalized for getting kills in pvp. Though they should have diminishing rewards. Beyond the metagame of player agency, zone control, guild affiliation, friends and enemies, war. The game shouldn't actively reward pvp too much. Because it takes the focus away from sandbox and towards arena pvp. If there was an arena in this game yeah. It should be rewarding in the arena. Most people like item loot for riskvsreward. And also because it can and will level the playing field on a healthy server. But as servers age (and they all do) and become more corrupt or top heavy, item loot has diminishing returns and becomes a detriment to fair play.

Your right. But I don't think it makes sense for an EQ PvP perspective to look at balancing the game by "giving people items" or allowing them to use items to overcome any player in any situation. It takes the imbalance of EQ away and makes people one man armies.

Honestly I am not an Arena pvper that much and more an RP pvper. I pvp my enemies and protect my friends. Enemies are defined by players who I don't like, are competition, or are too great of a threat to let live. I don't need any reward other than knowing that who I choose to KOS makes a difference to myself and my friends. I'm one of the least KOS players on the server also. I also like people to have to consider very carefully how they pvp. Not just for shits and giggles it gets old fast. Because the people pvping for shits and giggles are more inclined to abuse cheap game mechanics to get their lulz. And it is not fighting a human player at that point its fighting an overpowered player who behaves in a completely predictable manner - Fungi + Epic + zerg straight at you and they don't even worry about countering what you do to them. Because they have nothing to loose and usually cant loose.

I also hate the requirement of having to have a high level character to pvp on the majority of classes on this server with months invested into farming just the right stuff and tradeskills. People should be able to jump in and be effective pvpers with a pumice stone and 2-3 peices of mr gear and buddies. And some classic weapons, and later on kunark weapons. A good jouster should have a slim chance against an epic wielding character at high level with fair gear, but at low level it just doesnt matter how much skill you have.

If all the above is TLDR. Right now pvp below level 50 is a Zero Sum Game.

[NotKringe]

Originally Posted by runlvlzero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, but I don't care about the balance so much as even imbalanced its fun when your not two shotted or the other guy isn't immortal. The gear issue is not an issue of balance between classes. Its an issue of balance between progression. And via twinking EQ is very easy to manipulate this way.

Your example is good, but the system would also need built in PvE detection. Because kimm was not actually killing wizing, the mobs where.

I don't think a player should be penalized for getting kills in pvp. Though they should have diminishing rewards. Beyond the metagame of player agency, zone control, guild affiliation, friends and enemies, war. The game shouldn't actively reward pvp too much. Because it takes the focus away from sandbox and towards arena pvp. If there was an arena in this game yeah. It should be rewarding in the arena. Most people like item loot for riskvsreward. And also because it can and will level the playing field on a healthy server. But as servers age (and they all do) and become more corrupt or top heavy, item loot has diminishing returns and becomes a detriment to fair play.

Your right. But I don't think it makes sense for an EQ PvP perspective to look at balancing the game by "giving people items" or allowing them to use items to overcome any player in any situation. It takes the imbalance of EQ away and makes people one man armies.

Honestly I am not an Arena pvper that much and more an RP pvper. I pvp my enemies and protect my friends. Enemies are defined by players who I don't like, are competition, or are too great of a threat to let live. I don't need any reward other than knowing that who I choose to KOS makes a difference to myself and my friends. I'm one of the least KOS players on the server also. I also like people to have to consider very carefully how they pvp. Not just for shits and giggles it gets old fast. Because the people pvping for shits and giggles are more inclined to abuse cheap game mechanics to get their lulz. And it is not fighting a human player at that point its fighting an overpowered player who behaves in a completely predictable manner - Fungi + Epic + zerg straight at you and they don't even worry about countering what you do to them. Because they have nothing to loose and usually cant loose.

I also hate the requirement of having to have a high level character to pvp on the majority of classes on this server with months invested into farming just the right stuff and tradeskills. People should be able to jump in and be effective pvpers with a pumice stone and 2-3 peices of mr gear and buddies. And some classic weapons, and later on kunark weapons. A good jouster should have a slim chance against an epic wielding character at high level with fair gear, but at low level it just doesnt matter how much skill you have.

If all the above is TLDR. Right now pvp below level 50 is a Zero Sum Game.

Do you even have a lvl 60 on Red99? You constantly giving input on high end pvp but with what experience? Experience you have had based on what? If you don't have a 60 and haven't pvp'd for a minimal of 5-6months end game then pretty much the 10-20 posts you do a day are moot..

[Thrilla]

from another thread here:

If you do item loot I would hope that resists are tweaked BEFORE any item loot is implemented. May I suggest RZ type only non NO-DROP and not primary/secondary/offhand. Also nothing from bags. Even then I still think it is too hardcore for this population and will make PvP even duller, back in the day people generally didn't care about dying as much as they do in such a small community.

On RZ I'd wager 75-80% of the population ran around in NODROP only gear, the top tier PvPers went full gear because the resist system rewarded the risk vs reward to partial a spell vs possibly losing an item but could tip the scale of a fight. Resists have to be like Live PvP if you want item-loot to succeed otherwise just expect a bunch of naked ass people never wearing the gear and engaging only in zerg-like PvP where they feel they absolutely will win and won't take risks at all becuz of the thought of losing an item.

If you can replicate Live resists and pull it off it definitely adds another fun layer to the game, loved watching people run away as they bagged every single item starting with their robe if they were a caster lol. On Live it also rewarded risk takers, was like playing the lottery if you can pull off a quick gank in a raid force and loot a Trak BP/Legs cause they thought they were safe and didn't have the time to bag it. The idea has a lot of upside, but I feel the smallish population will make it harder to succeed as it did on Live. It also promotes more fatalities in the sense that if 2 people are going toe to toe and both are at risk of dying, they both may stick around becuz of the gamble of the item loot where as now people just b-line for the zone.

Edit: god, item-loot with fixed PvP resists has so much upside. It indirectly fixes enchanters as a more viable PvP class, and also puts Necros back on top as opposed to the clusterfuck of wizards that exist on R99 today because the other 3 int casters aren't as powerful as they were on Live. Enchanters would be able to land more spells including DD's as the thought of even losing a jacinth ring /tranix crown might make somebody bag it and lower their MR also people would start saccing a bit more of MR to make their FR/CR/etc higher also indirectly helping Enchanters and making the int caster pool balanced again

TLDR: Item loot being successful is entirely dependent on the PvP resist system being reliable

[mtb tripper]

I want perm-death server

[NotKringe]

Originally Posted by Thrilla [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

from another thread here:

If you do item loot I would hope that resists are tweaked BEFORE any item loot is implemented. May I suggest RZ type only non NO-DROP and not primary/secondary/offhand. Also nothing from bags. Even then I still think it is too hardcore for this population and will make PvP even duller, back in the day people generally didn't care about dying as much as they do in such a small community.

On RZ I'd wager 75-80% of the population ran around in NODROP only gear, the top tier PvPers went full gear because the resist system rewarded the risk vs reward to partial a spell vs possibly losing an item but could tip the scale of a fight. Resists have to be like Live PvP if you want item-loot to succeed otherwise just expect a bunch of naked ass people never wearing the gear and engaging only in zerg-like PvP where they feel they absolutely will win and won't take risks at all becuz of the thought of losing an item.

If you can replicate Live resists and pull it off it definitely adds another fun layer to the game, loved watching people run away as they bagged every single item starting with their robe if they were a caster lol. On Live it also rewarded risk takers, was like playing the lottery if you can pull off a quick gank in a raid force and loot a Trak BP/Legs cause they thought they were safe and didn't have the time to bag it. The idea has a lot of upside, but I feel the smallish population will make it harder to succeed as it did on Live. It also promotes more fatalities in the sense that if 2 people are going toe to toe and both are at risk of dying, they both may stick around becuz of the gamble of the item loot where as now people just b-line for the zone.

Edit: god, item-loot with fixed PvP resists has so much upside. It indirectly fixes enchanters as a more viable PvP class, and also puts Necros back on top as opposed to the clusterfuck of wizards that exist on R99 today because the other 3 int casters aren't as powerful as they were on Live. Enchanters would be able to land more spells including DD's as the thought of even losing a jacinth ring /tranix crown might make somebody bag it and lower their MR also people would start saccing a bit more of MR to make their FR/CR/etc higher also indirectly helping Enchanters and making the int caster pool balanced again

TLDR: Item loot being successful is entirely dependent on the PvP resist system being reliable

Pretty much spot on.

[Bogart]

Wow you guys are retarded he was talking about food water and arrows, stackable limited use items.

[Vexenu]

Can anyone please explain the point of looting food and arrows.

We'd literally be better off if everyone just dropped a cracked staff upon death.