So how about that Zimmerman trial?

[Samoht]

so either you're mitt romney or you're eating out of the trash can with no middle ground? it's honestly irrelevant who you know if you put emphasis on dealing drugs and dropping out of school instead of attending college and having some moderate success in life. let's talk about the 1%-99% of americans and leave the extremes out.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The American Dream is a hoax.

No, the phrase was "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". No one was guaranteed anything. Everyone would start from different places. But at least the government/society wouldn't make it impossible for someone to rise in the social/economic order. That's less true nowadays though sadly.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's less true nowadays though sadly.

i can agree with this. citizens united gave control to ultra-conglomos that allows them to control the world and only allows members from their inner circle to become filthy rich.

but that alone can't stop everybody. and definitely cannot prevent moderate success.

[Malice_Mizer]

You guys are seriously confused. I love how conservative libertarians always bemoan the government, though their real beef should be directed at multi-national corporations.

In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

I know your own twisted tea party conception of the American Dream is rife with social Darwinist overtones, but that's simply not the general consensus.

And you can examine the poles of society as representative of the general disorder. If royal lines of inheritance and elite social circles exist, where all real economic, social, and political power are vested, how does every person truly have a shot at "rags-to-riches"?

I'm not arguing for equality of outcomes, I'm arguing for a more complete equality of opportunity. Economic, social, and political opportunity have been concentrated in a very specific sector of the population for a while now. And it's definitely not "the government's" fault. I love how "the government" is such a monolithic thing to you guys. It's cute.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are seriously confused

i'm honestly confused about the intent of malice_morons most recent post or how it's pertinent to the discussion.

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I love how conservative libertarians always bemoan the government, though their real beef should be directed at multi-national corporations.

he includes ad hominem attacks against republicans (i'm a democrat in america but a socialist in reality), so is he just assuming everybody is a republican just because black people are capable of committing crimes?

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In the definition of the American Dream by James Truslow Adams in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of social class or circumstances of birth.

he defines american dream, but does not apply it to the situation.

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know your own twisted tea party conception of the American Dream is rife with social Darwinist overtones, but that's simply not the general consensus.

more ad hominem attacks but still no point

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you can examine the poles of society as representative of the general disorder. If royal lines of inheritance and elite social circles exist, where all real economic, social, and political power are vested, how does every person truly have a shot at "rags-to-riches"?

so he's still talking about the 1% and how if you're not a part of it, you must be eating out of trash cans?

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not arguing for equality of outcomes, I'm arguing for a more complete equality of opportunity. Economic, social, and political opportunity have been concentrated in a very specific sector of the population for a while now

they'd have to leave the ghetto, first. end the worship-of-poverty, end the inequality.

Originally Posted by Malice_Moron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And it's definitely not "the government's" fault. I love how "the government" is such a monolithic thing to you guys. It's cute.

who the fuck blamed the government? i mentioned citizens united and how they gave the rights of corporations the same rights as individuals, but that's calling out the corporations and not government.

[Malice_Mizer]

I was talking to Sporf.

And you're definitely not a socialist. What's this "stop the worship of poverty" meme you're clinging to? Ignore the extremes of society? What the hell is that? The very fact that extreme poles exist within our society is a blatant display of the inherently unjust nature of our economic order.

For some reason you don't see how all of these issues intersect. Economics, race, politics, history-- nothing is in a vacuum. You're spouting social Darwinist attitudes on virtually every single issue I've seen you comment on.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For some reason you don't see how all of these issues intersect.

He's a teenage boy in Texas.

[Samoht]

reality check for you malice_moron:

many black people CHOOSE to live they way they do. there's no one to blame but themselves.

you cannot blame the white man for everything. sorry.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys are seriously confused. I love how conservative libertarians always bemoan the government, though their real beef should be directed at multi-national corporations.

No, the government is the root of the problem because it enables banks and big corporations and other special interest groups Goldman Sachs can't come to my door and demand I give them money or they will shoot me. But they can get their ex CEO to become Secretary of the Treasury and give them trillions of dollars on flimsy pretexts.
Liberals always think government will stick up for the little guy; in reality government will always be owned by the rich dudes.

[Splorf22]

Also I am basically for equality. We have CEOs and shit being paid literally hundreds of millions of dollars and for what? So they can have luxury yachts and burn up our limited petroleum flying around to a different city every night? In the mean time we have billions of people living in abject poverty (note: almost none of them live in the United States). I read stuff like "an aircraft carrier could supply clean water to some huge number of people" and wince.

What you fail to understand, however, is that equality comes at the cost of liberty. Because the world isn't fair. If you are going to try and make it fair, it must come at the cost of taking from Peter to pay Paul. Now in and of itself thats not a knockout, but then we have the second problem: using the government to "fix" equality simply doesn't work. Big government is simply too corrupt and too inefficient.

Also WTF is up with you using some random dude writing a book in 1931 to supersede the Declaration of Independence as the definition of the American Dream? That's just weird.