The Deru' Plan C discussion

[Hitpoint]

People in the raid discussion forum act like we aren't already giving up way more than we think is fair. Every single one of these proposals is terrible for us, we're only losing while you're only gaining. We tried proposals, and they got shot down because they didn't give enough. This started out as upper guilds being asked to share mobs, and we tried to do that. Now it's devolved into the other guilds taking as much as they can get. We offered 7 days of full casual rotation, you said 14, we offered 10, you said 14. Where is the compromise? Derubael's deal is close to it.

We (regular fe members) aren't allowed to post in that section of the boards. But from talks among us it's pretty much unanimous that Rogean's proposal isn't acceptable whatsoever, so stop pretending like it's a real possibility. There's like 5 other deals we'd take before that one.

[falkun]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

[falkun]

Fine hitpoint. Develop some rules where competition isnt fte, fraps, and petitionquest and tier2 can agree. Otherwise any forced competition is the status quo.

[Prismaticshop]

Andro, you make no sense at all.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

Because TMO is under new leadership who may not support all this petition quest BS. I can tell you we never wanted to participate to begin with.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fine hitpoint. Develop some rules where competition isnt fte, fraps, and petitionquest and tier2 can agree. Otherwise any forced competition is the status quo.

It's not though. New TMO has already shown to be much more amicable than the old leadership. I have a lot of hope for the raid scene tbh, even with all this going on. I wouldn't be surprised if a guild council could actually police themselves at this point. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. We'll see.

[Gwence]

Originally Posted by Xadion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

reading the responses from most of the 'B' guilds it seems clear they have no desire to compete, push forward, strive to be better and advance. They just want mobs handed to them, they will only think of their handed mobs, no thought of working and striving forward and upward... Nope just gimmy my rotation mobs k thanks drive through

they only look at their given on a plate number of mobs, not 'oh if we use the advantages worked in the system we can advance and grow our guild!'

their reason why all this 'CHANGE' needed to happen is because they can't compete or do anything they need help! They get offered help, and they say the truth...not help, handouts are wanted...and now seemingly demanded.

its kind of sad...

The only thing that is sad is this post. I think it's time to go get a life.

[Tegellan]

We have 5000 people from all different timezones/ parts of the world.
The staff has asked everyone to come together and agree on how we should proceed with the raid scene.

I dont think you could get 10 people to agree nevermind 5000. Everyone naturally wants more then they "should" get.

At some point the GMS/Staff are going to have to step in and say "this is what we are doing" or the server will begin to shrink at a rapid pace when no one can raid and all the "good" camps are imposible to get. (the other day I ran to see if PS came was open.. there was a line of 3 people behind the person who was actually camping it)


I think a few things are obvious now.

1) GMs will have to step in and decide on what the raid scene will be
2) As soon as a decision is reached the population will drop (at least for now). If the rules favor the casual group. You will see a lot of the top guilds leave the game or at least the bulk of the members. If they favor the raiders you will see a few casual players leave (altho not a lot as they played when they were getting 0 mobs).. eitherway 1 or all sides will feel they got screwed.


As much as I am sure the intentions were good and I think Sirken and the GM staff have done a great job (far better then I ever could). I personally believe putting this on the player base was a bad idea. People on both sides will hold the server hostage now. The Casual players have the mindset of "we were not doing much raids before so we can hold out longer then those that were raiding" and the Hardcores have the mindset of "We can sit at our computer for hours on end tracking.. we certainly have the drive/willpower to hold out as long as needed.

Neither side is going to budge.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Art, i apologize if i misinterpret. Even with fte shouts, sirken noted this mess began because every kill involved a petition, and that was when only feib and tmo were participating. With plan c, we are about to go right back to the same "competition". Why would tier2 guilds involve themselves in that?

First and most im von and i think u know me from grouping alot .
i think u are rigth most TMO/ FE meembers i think are tired of forum questin and frapsquestion and petition quest.


What happened to tmo well it happened . but as i see it i think its time to keep some form of civilized competition btwm guilds but at same time without the old cuthroads wars
and give some stuff to smaller guilds .


from every post i have read over last weeks there havent been a single one trying actualy to get a play nice raid politic .

i think than competition still viable but without popsocks and pre camps .

i see vp free of trains a excelent idea , never liked it .

for once i would love a official post from gms guild leaders to agree some rules of competition for the server but as a work to see if was possible to devise a friendly way to develop some form of competition.


Because lets be honests , what most people want is free pixels as fast is possible and in hugue ammount fuck qualitys.

would i like to see bda kill PD? yeah, the same way i did laughed me ass when actualy FE beat us for it .

and Taken yeah ? and everyone who put some interest and effort.


and know why? because people who try to race or atleats try it show he is here to stay for the long run no just for / xxx loot and quits and call platlord so some eqmac can buy a account like i haven watching lately .

[Fael]

When did "working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters" turn into a complete and complicated revision of the EQ classic raiding... to the point of giving "smaller guilds" not "a chance" but carte blanch authority to take 50% of the raid targets?

Seriously. FE/TMO's original proposal did just that. Albiet it left off some key epic mobs that smaller guilds should "have a chance" to get. To some degree Proposition C does just that,but perhaps it gives up too much in the other areas.

Dolic