Ichiro was out

[Tecmos Deception]

Am I the only person in the world who thought of Rule 7.08 when Ichiro was running in circles, all the way outside of the batters' boxes, while trying to dodge that tag from Wieters?

John Smolts, Cal Ripken, dozens of sports reporters on the web, Neil + Stan on sportscenter. NO ONE is bothering to mention that Ichiro's stupid cirque du soleil moves were against the rules and should have made him out regardless of whether he got tagged.

Would these dudes have said it was "smart baseball" and "good thinking" if someone who is caught in a pickle decides to run into the outfield and then back down to a base? Of course not. So why the hell do they not bother to mention that after an attempted tag up the baseline, you aren't allowed be flopping around in the dirt in the right-handed batters box trying to get to home plate and end up getting called freaking safe.

[Everlove]

He wasn't that far out of the "base line", I think the umpire figured it was an easy enough tag to make so that it wasn't really an issue. The base line from 3rd to home is always a grey area, some of the runners rounding 3rd gotta watch out they don't fall into the dugout they take such wide turns, I think he did pretty well to be that close to the straight line from 3rd to home...

Wieters' fault imo for flopping around like a baby harp seal rather than just blocking the plate for an easy out. Don't care about either team, but that's how I saw it anyway.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Everlove [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wieters' fault imo for flopping around like a baby harp seal rather than just blocking the plate for an easy out. Don't care about either team, but that's how I saw it anyway.

Not really Wieters' fault. Bad relay took him four feet up the line and Ichiro just took advantage of that unfortunate positioning. Wieters could have reacted quicker, maybe, but he didn't have a chance to block the plate due to the throw from the cut-off being off.

Well within the norm, though. Those kind of plays happen at home and second.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Everlove [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He wasn't that far out of the "base line", I think the umpire figured it was an easy enough tag to make so that it wasn't really an issue. The base line from 3rd to home is always a grey area

I don't know why there would be a "grey area." The rule very plainly says what is ok and what isn't, in my opinion. And it is pretty apparent that you have no idea what the rule does say, based on your post.

Originally Posted by MLB Official Rules

7.08 Any runner is out when --
(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely

The "base line" in this instance was an imaginary line from ichiro to home plate that formed at the moment the first tag was attempted, correct? And straying more than 3 feet from that line means that Ichiro should be out, correct? And scrambling around outside the back end of the right-handed batter's box was more than 3 feet from that line.

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those kind of plays happen at home and second.

The equivalent of this play at second base doesn't happen, because the only time there is a tag play at second is when the runner is running directly towards second base from first base AND the runner is sliding. You just don't see runners strafing around 5 feet out towards left-center on the backside 2nd base without having touched the bag already. And if a runner did end up over there after circling counterclockwise from the first-base side of second while trying to avoid a tag, he'd be freaking called out regardless of whether the tag was made.

[Everlove]

I'd hazard a guess that the reason "NO ONE" is talking about it besides you, is that you are the only person that finds it out of the ordinary. I will admit I'm no baseball expert, but I watch plenty of it to know that what happened happens all the time. If they get tagged they're out, if they don't.. they're safe. Ichiro is a very evasive little dude and it paid off for him this time.

[Tecmos Deception]

I watch at least 150 games every year, and even though I've only been watching baseball for probably 7-8 years, that's still a lot of baseball.

This wasn't a situation where someone ran 6 feet off the chaulk line to go around a catcher or where someone evaded a tag with fancy arm movements. This was a situation where someone ran all the way around behind home plate and then only actually got to the plate itself when he was laying in the left-handed batters' box. I can't recall ever seeing something like this on 1000+ games.

If this "happens all the time" like you claim, then surely you can remember a few times when someone first touches homeplate while laying on the first-base side of home, right? If what Ichiro did was allowed, then you would see people coming to a stop as they approach home and then stutterstepping and crap to avoid the tag and then circling around behind the now-prone catcher who fell flat on his face while trying to make the tag.


You don't come home from the first-base side. That's the crap you learn in tee-ball. If you don't understand that is "out of the ordinary" or that calling someone safe for doing it is ridiculous, then I don't know what more to say.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If what Ichiro did was allowed, then you would see people coming to a stop as they approach home and then stutterstepping and crap to avoid the tag and then circling around behind the now-prone catcher who fell flat on his face while trying to make the tag.

Off the top of my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rvwTykC-IM

Could probably find twenty more if I spent ten minutes.

Seriously though, sounds like I've played more baseball than you've watched. It is a rare play, but it happens. It occurs less in the Majors because catchers play their position pretty flawlessly in the majors and dudes can pretty much throw the ball exactly where they want to. Like I said before: if you want to be upset with something about the play, hate on the cut-off man's shitty throw.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously though, sounds like I've played more baseball than you've watched.

Which club are you affiliated with?


Also, you linking a 20+ year old video of a play like Ichiros doesn't support your statement that plays like this happen "all the time" (nor would you linking 20 different videos of that) any more than me linking a 20+ year old perfect game supports the statement that "perfect games happen all the time" (nor would me linking 20 different perfect game videos).


Also, this all is irrelevant. Performance-enhancing drugs get used in baseball LITERALLY all the time. Not all the dudes who are shooting up get caught, though. But does that mean it is legal to use them? Of course not. Does that mean that the league condones the use of these drugs? Of course not.


If you want to make an argument that the rule I'm talking about is not followed because it is universally disliked and the umps systematically and purposely don't enforce it and that the rule should be changed, then go right ahead. But none of the things you've had to say affect the fact that Ichiro violated a rule of MLB, the umpire improperly ruled at the plate, etc.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which club are you affiliated with?

None. Unlike you I played organized baseball from the time I was eight till I was in my early twenties. I played in summer leagues, fall leagues, winter leagues and spring leagues. I have been involved in plays like this one, both as a runner and as a pitcher covering home.

Also, you linking a 20+ year old video of a play like Ichiros doesn't support your statement that plays like this happen "all the time" (nor would you linking 20 different videos of that) any more than me linking a 20+ year old perfect game supports the statement that "perfect games happen all the time" (nor would me linking 20 different perfect game videos).

I didn't say they happen "all the time". I said they happen. I linked you a very famous play, the first that came to mind when I watched the Ichiro play.

If you want to make an argument that the rule I'm talking about is not followed because it is universally disliked and the umps systematically and purposely don't enforce it and that the rule should be changed, then go right ahead. But none of the things you've had to say affect the fact that Ichiro violated a rule of MLB, the umpire improperly ruled at the plate, etc.

Here's the thing: you have a horse in this race, clearly--and I don't. I know the rule and the intent of it and how it's called--you don't. I understand it must suck to be an O's fan--I root for the Twins, myself. Just get over it. This is a play in baseball.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None. Unlike you I played organized baseball from the time I was eight till I was in my early twenties. I played in summer leagues, fall leagues, winter leagues and spring leagues. I have been involved in plays like this one, both as a runner and as a pitcher covering home.

Who, other than you, ever said I didn't play any organized baseball? Yeah. No one.

Seriously, though. Why would you bring up your experience with baseball as an 8-year-old as if it has any bearing on how well you understand a very specific MLB rule?

Did you use the MLB rules in your leagues? And were your leagues were serious enough that the umps even knew the rules? Cause I know a lot of people get very serious about sports in, say, high school... but I bet a ton of the officials in high school sports, baseball included, don't know anything except the rules that come up in every series.

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't say they happen "all the time".

My mistake.

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the thing: you have a horse in this race, clearly--and I don't. I know the rule and the intent of it and how it's called--you don't. I understand it must suck to be an O's fan--I root for the Twins, myself. Just get over it. This is a play in baseball.

Stop making assumptions about me. I don't care about the Os or the Yanks apart from the "it'd be fun if the underdog won" kind of mentality. I saw the play and thought "boy, he sure was all over the place while trying to get to home... I bet that is against a rule... I'm going to go look it up."

And if you're so enlightened about the "intent" of a rule that says something that has a very plain, literal meaning, then please do share what this intent is and how it is that you know it.