Game Mechanics: Summon interval (Howling Stones / all world)

[DoucLangur]

pre Planes of Power, summon interval was 11 (eleven) seconds.

While I did not hunt in Howling Stones on live, it would strike me as extremely odd if this was different in here of all Kunark and Velious zones.

This "A helot skeleton" in Howling Stones just summoned me in as low as 6 second intervals, which makes it clearly overpowered.

All summoning mobs in Kunark and Velious that I can remember pre PoP had an 11 seconds refresh on their summon ability. Including raid encounters.

Comments / logfiles of old please, and fix if Howling Stones was never an exception to the rule.

[Wed Dec 21 20:02:39 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:02:54 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:00 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:07 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:13 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:19 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:25 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:31 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:37 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:44 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:03:51 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:06 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:24 2011] You have been summoned!
[Wed Dec 21 20:04:50 2011] You have been summoned!

[DoucLangur]

bump! This is definitely not okay - same low summon interval in Sebilis crypt as of today. Comments please!

[Uthgaard]

It's a 6 second delay between summons. This is working correctly.

[DoucLangur]

What I mean is - the summon interval is supposed to be 11 seconds. Sadly the only mob that I have such a perfect vivid memory of to know for sure it was >10 seconds is Lodizal, but I am pretty sure I was nastily surprised of the 6 second Planes of Power summon interval *because* I had never seen it before.

For Lodizal: I beat him with my necro at level 65 only because I could summon-kite him: Between summons, I had the time to run ahead of him with SoW potions, and cast exactly *one* spell, before he summoned me - and I had to get the timing exactly right so that he wouldn't interrupt the casting with summon, or catch up to me and melee me first.

I did the sebilite protector with a similar tactic, kiting him underwater near the bridge in Trakanons Lair, but my memory is not nearly as good.

Anyways - that is why I was asking for comments. And I will hope to look up some sources. Maybe someone with an active live account can go to sebilis and other kunark zones that have not been revamped, and check what the summon interval is currently - for verification.

The shorter summon interval is a gamechanger, makes many encounters a lot tougher - I can currently not even step back from a stationary mob to finish casting a spell before I get summoned again. And when tanking a mob, it will often - even when I am in melee range - summon me so far into itself, that it turns around and the rogues can't backstab until I move out again. But that's another issue... not sure if that was classic.

Cheers
Slozem

[nilbog]

Do some research. If you find evidence to support your claim, it will be investigated.

I did one google search.. which yielded results not favorable to your argument.

https://www.google.com/#q=%2B%22summ...w=1184&bih=549

[DoucLangur]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do some research. If you find evidence to support your claim, it will be investigated.

I did one google search.. which yielded results not favorable to your argument.

https://www.google.com/#q=%2B%22summon+every+6+seconds%22&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&filter=0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r _pw.,cf.osb&fp=4b3c420078196b39&biw=1184&bih=549

That's what I call selective search approach [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If you search for "summon every 6 seconds", I am not surprised at the results you get. You can do the same for "summon every 10 seconds" and get results about EQ. Also, in your search results, there is a comment from 2007 on zam, saying "Most mobs these days summon every 6 seconds" which is a good indication that the poster knows previously the summon interval was different.

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.html?id=8667

Check the comment from Dec. 16 2007 No. 2 here:
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=4571

The guy says:

2. If you have an HP buff so you have 4k - 5k HP you wanna get and keep aggro. get summoned, run away, lifetap, and poison nuke when time and HP allow.

Run away & lifetap can not possibly work with a necro: The shortest necro lifetap was 3 seconds cast time in 2007. With 6 second summon interval, you'd have 2 seconds to run away - in which you couldn't even get out of melee range of this guy...

I found a couple more posts on zam indicating that the summon refresh timer was high enough for backing off and casting something/shooting arrows, before being summoned again - but no one talks about an explicit summon interval / refresh timer.

I am gonna dig up my oldest logs and see what I have.

Cheers
Slozem

[DoucLangur]

This here is the shortest time between 2 summons I have found in my log of the Combine (progression) server:

Sebilis:

[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] froglok ilis knight says 'You will not evade me Pollution!'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] Froglok ilis knight staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:06 2006] Gaseker staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:07 2006] Froglok ilis knight has taken 81 damage from your Bond of Death.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:08 2006] Avicenna tells the group, 'i guess the other camp means i can pull the named from here easier'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:09 2006] Froglok ilis knight staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:09 2006] Gaseker staggers.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:11 2006] Avicenna tells the group, 'Incoming Complete Healing to >>> Pollution <<<'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:11 2006] Avicenna begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:12 2006] Keldonis tells the group, 'yeah lets help him get a robe'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:13 2006] Froglok ilis knight has taken 84 damage from your Bond of Death.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:15 2006] You begin casting Screaming Terror.
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:16 2006] You tell your party, 'a sebilite golem mezzed'
[Sun Aug 20 22:22:16 2006] froglok ilis knight says 'You will not evade me Pollution!'

The Ruins of Old Paineel:

[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] Your Screaming Terror spell has worn off of a rock golem.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] a rock golem says 'You will not evade me Maliciosa!'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] You have been summoned!
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 126 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:45 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 224 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:46 2006] A flighty fiend has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:46 2006] Xonann bashes a rock golem for 10 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 20 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 135 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:48 2006] A rock golem hits YOU for 197 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] Rusten tells the group, 'yeah my bad thought iwas casting tap'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] A flighty fiend bashes YOU for 19 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:49 2006] Tuazen begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 36 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Xonann tells you, 'I am unable to wake a flighty fiend, master.'
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:50 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] You begin casting Feign Death.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] A flighty fiend has taken 36 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:51 2006] a flighty fiend has been awakened by Maliciosa.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:52 2006] A flighty fiend hits YOU for 33 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:52 2006] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] an elemental wizard begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:53 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 47 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:54 2006] Tuazen hit a flighty fiend for 855 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:54 2006] A flighty fiend screams as a magic force rends their flesh.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:55 2006] Xonann hits a rock golem for 13 points of damage.
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:56 2006] a flighty fiend begins to use a rock golem as a living shield!
[Fri Aug 25 01:48:56 2006] a rock golem says 'You will not evade me Destructioner!'

Plane of Hate:

[Fri Sep 01 00:16:04 2006] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Velvetmoon!'
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:04 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:05 2006] A loathling lich's body begins to splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:05 2006] A loathling lich looks angry.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] a loathling lich regains concentration and continues casting.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:06 2006] You resist the Immobilize spell!
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:07 2006] A loathling lich has taken 136 damage from your Ignite Blood.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:07 2006] A loathling lich has taken 11 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] Uggme staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:08 2006] A loathling lich staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:09 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:10 2006] Uggme scores a critical hit! (35)
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:11 2006] Velvetmoon begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:11 2006] Your feet adhere to the ground.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:12 2006] Taunting attacker, Master.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] Kebarn backstabs a loathling lich for 80 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] A loathling lich has taken 127 damage from your Ignite Blood.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] A loathling lich has taken 23 damage from your Splurt.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:13 2006] a loathling lich begins to cast a spell.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 22 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] A loathling lich staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn staggers.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 44 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:14 2006] Kebarn hits a loathling lich for 17 points of damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] Velvetmoon hit a loathling lich for 571 points of non-melee damage.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] A loathling lich's mind warps.
[Fri Sep 01 00:16:15 2006] a loathling lich says 'You will not evade me Velvetmoon!'

Of course this doesn't prove the interval can't be shorter, and I could forge it - but I ask everyone to check their log files for any summon interval less than 10 seconds by the same mob (please make sure it isn't 2 mobs of the same name summoning [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just analyzed 115 MB of 2005/06 Logfiles from Antonius Bayle and The Combine (Progression):
- filtered lines with "will not evade" into a text file
- opened in OpenOffice Calc as text import, columns separated by space
- created 4 new columns with:
a) timespan between previous and current summon
b) timespan between current and next summon
c) filter column to have value 1 when either timespan is less than 12 seconds
d) column with the smaller value of a) and b) to hold the smallest timespans between summons

I then looked through all lines that had a value of 1 in column c) and thus an interesting summon time:
The *only* mob I have found pre-Planes of Power with a summon interval of less than 10 seconds was Cazic Thule in the revamped (epics) Plane of Fear: he summons in 6 second intervals.

Am happy to provide logfile extracts with the summon lines - am still looking for older logfiles, but I may have lost them in a HD crash.

[Rogean]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

[Autotune]

i've seen tactics posted on other sites for necros similar to what he is saying. The same tactics aren't viable here with mobs that summon, that is for certain. I've never seen anyone list a specific summoning time either tho. Like he stated it's usually "get summoned, back out and cast blah blah, get summoned back away and so forth" On p99 ur almost always being summoned so you're lucky if you can get off one of ur quickest spells.

I've also seen some necro tactics for certain mobs where people are out of melee range but inside of the summoning range. (so they don't get hit, or get summoned) This I've tried once and failed so never tried again lol, i imagine it doesn't work here at all.

Like Rogean says tho, I don't see it getting changed. Many things on p99 will not get changed to make it easier. Pretty much anything that made classic hard stays, anything that trivializes classic goes.

[Reikerx]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll save you some time and say now that even if you did find proof that it was 11, it's unlikely I would change it. As we get closer to velious and mobs that will be permarooted, the tactic of summon kiting will be utilized, and increasing the duration would trivialize many encounters. Even without permaroot it would still be an issue for many encounters.

Why? That's why they implemented Call of the Zero. Velious raid mobs use that at like 1 second delay, not the generic summon ability. This prevents summon kiting already.