Game Mechanics: Faction Issues

Supreme · #1 12-19-2011, 01:53 PM

Seems that as a Ogre Shadowknight i am now Dubious in Grobb/Oggok/Neriak...with the only mobs being killed are Frogloks/Aviaks/Solusek A goblins.

Sundawg · #2 12-19-2011, 02:11 PM

What are you dubious to that you think you should not be? You are supposed to be dubious with some of Neriak and Grobb.

When you tell me, please also include your diety.

To futher add for everyone, just because you are an evil race do not expect to be loved by other evils. For example, Troll Shadow Knights will be KILLED if they visit the ogre shaman (well, in classic.. I have not changed the ogre shaman chart here yet) or warrior guilds.

Thats classic, there is a price to pay for all those extra ogre/troll stats and special abilities, and the bill is due now.

But keep the bug reports comming, I'll be happy to check anything you think is wrong. I am just putting that out there.

Supreme · #3 12-20-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundawg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you dubious to that you think you should not be? You are supposed to be dubious with some of Neriak and Grobb.

When you tell me, please also include your diety.

To futher add for everyone, just because you are an evil race do not expect to be loved by other evils. For example, Troll Shadow Knights will be KILLED if they visit the ogre shaman (well, in classic.. I have not changed the ogre shaman chart here yet) or warrior guilds.

Thats classic, there is a price to pay for all those extra ogre/troll stats and special abilities, and the bill is due now.

But keep the bug reports comming, I'll be happy to check anything you think is wrong. I am just putting that out there.

Dubious to Troll/DE guards as a Ogre SK of Cazic Thule. Does this mean i am Amiable in Cazic Thule and Plane of Fear now?

"there is a price to pay for all those extra ogre/troll stats and special abilities, and the bill is due now."

So the 61-68% xp penatly is not enough?[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this is how it is designed thats fine...just wanted to make sure i wasnt LOSING faction by killing Aviaks/Frogs.

Thanks for following up.

Sundawg · #4 12-20-2011, 10:44 AM

Your Ogre SK of Cazic-Thule is Dubious to Dark Elf Guards around Neriak after the patch?

Are you sure you have never done anything against them in your past? Go run a brand new Ogre SK of Cazic over to them and you will see they are apprehensive /con to it.

Xatava · #5 12-20-2011, 01:45 PM

When you guys change factions around in a patch you tend to screw things up majorly, in my experience. On my iksar monk I grinded orcs for around 15 hours and was up to high apprehensive with the monk guild in freeport. After the iksar faction patch a while back I dropped down to scowling. A guildie of mine this week made a new Iksar Monk and told me he started off threatening to Freeport Monk guild. Makes no sense why I should be scowling.

Sundawg · #6 12-20-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xatava [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you guys change factions around in a patch you tend to screw things up majorly, in my experience. On my iksar monk I grinded orcs for around 15 hours and was up to high apprehensive with the monk guild in freeport. After the iksar faction patch a while back I dropped down to scowling. A guildie of mine this week made a new Iksar Monk and told me he started off threatening to Freeport Monk guild. Makes no sense why I should be scowling.

I looked at the data and even made a level one iksar monk to go in game and look for myself, very much full on KOS.

If your friend has a new Iksar Monk that is only threateningly to the Ashen Order, please have him fill out a bug report ASAP.

Thank you.

Uthgaard · #7 12-20-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanras [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The data is helpful. But in isolation, we can't identify how each of the race/class/deity mods is actually contributing to the final result. In the case of the ogre/war/agnostic, it's pretty safe to assume that the ogre portion is going to be the only negative mod in the good cities, but we don't know if that's being offset by a positive warrior mod.

It's more optimal to focus on a specific group of factions in an area and try to narrow down how each race/class/deity affects them. The only way to do this is to throw a ton of fresh characters at them with each race/class/deity combo.

Example: I've been running around on live a bit trying to narrow down the mods in the qeynos area. So I start with a human/war/agnostic. Run around and con representatives from the local factions. I use this as the base and change to human/war/bertoxx. Con the same factions, see what the difference is. I now have a good idea the numerical faction adjustment for Bertoxx worship in the qeynos area. Then I can switch to human/sk/bertoxx, con again, check differences from human/war/bertoxx. That gives me a good idea of SK mods for those factions. It's even worse since we only know the final con result, which represents a large numerical range in many cases.

Kanras explained why just modifying the base is dangerous. Base modifier is really only in to save the trouble of entering a value in every field where they would all be identical, and is too blunt and dangerous of a tool be used to alter an entire faction. There is no equivalent field in a live faction table. Where a race starts out is only one very small data point in an experiment that should take upwards of two days per faction to complete correctly, depending on the ease modifying that faction in isolation.

Sundawg · #8 12-20-2011, 04:26 PM

I agree, modifying the base has very limmited use. The Neriak Ghouls are one example, and incidentlly are a faction that do not take diety or class into account what so ever, only race.

Uthgaard · #9 12-20-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundawg [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree, modifying the base has very limmited use. The Neriak Ghouls are one example, and incidentlly are a faction that do not take diety or class into account what so ever, only race.

The shroud system on live makes it possible to gauge faction hits on a single character and reset the values when you're done, by losing the shroud. It takes a lot of data, attention to detail, and some careful math to determine both how big the faction hit is, and where the faction was initially, but that's the only way to pinpoint all of the values in each table. Just doing the five factions in Cabilis took me two weeks of nothing else.

Sundawg · #10 12-20-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uthgaard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The shroud system on live makes it possible to gauge faction hits on a single character and reset the values when you're done, by losing the shroud. It takes a lot of data, attention to detail, and some careful math to determine both how big the faction hit is, and where the faction was initially, but that's the only way to pinpoint all of the values in each table. Just doing the five factions in Cabilis took me two weeks of nothing else.

Is that shroud system accurate? I've never played with them. When I logged into the iksar monk today to check on that ashen order faction I noticed I was indifferent with my guildmaster, it should be amiable. I have not worked on any Kunark factions yet.