How do monks hold aggro in groups

[Dundrige]

Hi I love playing paladin but my friend said they are terrible compared to monks.

He said the ceiling is way higher because monks tank better, do way more damage, and can FD.

He also said paladins are pathetic.

My one question to him is how do monks hold aggro in groups? Say you are in a group with a bunch of casters... how are you keeping them alive? You can't taunt... you can't root.... you can't cast spells... so how?

[Cecily]

You bop em on the head. Victim blame the dead casters.

[Ephirith]

Monks hold agro through a combination of their own personal DPS and reliance on their group's utility, such as the casters rooting the mob and people using their agro dropping skills/abilities. Depending on the skill and composition of your group, this can either be very smooth and effective, or it can be a problem. I'd say it works out fine far often than it doesn't.

Your friend is not entirely wrong; monks just have an incredibly OP toolkit compared to any other melee. Big picture vs. big picture, paladins are pathetic compared to monks. Paladins are not terrible group tanks compared to monks, especially in a full group-- which is their niche. However, this is really the only place in the game where a paladin really shines, and I still wouldn't put them far ahead of a monk, because the velious geared monk is roughly as durable, yet puts out dramatically more DPS for faster kills. The snap agro is great and it's the reason I prefer Pal to monk tank in a group of 6, but it is optional, there are plenty of ways to manage agro. Stunning charm breaks and interrupting casters is also $$$ in a leveling group.

Monk dps and durability makes them a great contributor in the famous monk/shaman duo, but often overlooked is paladin/enchanter which is also pretty fucking great at all levels.

Originally Posted by Dundrige [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hi I love playing paladin

Then play a paladin... it's not so much that they are pathetic, they are niche. Are soulfire raid clickies still a thing? Tell your friend to enjoy being the most overplayed class, and make sure he knows everyone is terrible compared to enchanters.

[Keebz]

As a monk, you auto attack and hope for procs. You can't really do anything else.

Paladins, and any class with spells really, have a pretty high ceiling. At any given moment you have a lot more options and choices to make, so there's power there if you can figure out how to make use of it. Overall, the tankiness and all the heals lead to some pretty impressive sustain. For example, there's people like Opmeter that can solo some pretty cool things like cliff golems.

On the other hand, Monks have an elegance with FD, sneak and clickies. There's subtle interplay in the mechanics, so you can do more than meets the eye. Not to mention monks simply scale the best with gear. But it's like a 3-4 button class at best. Autoattack, disc, fd... sometimes sneak.

[Vexenu]

Outside of pulling, Monks are by far the most braindead class in the game. Literally just auto-attacking while enjoying the best get-out-jail-free card possible with FD, so they're basically never punished for their mistakes compared to every other class. The class pretty much plays itself, especially once well-geared. For this reason, it's very difficult to tell a good Monk from a bad Monk if they aren't doing difficult pulls. The decision tree of a Monk at any given moment is basically, "Keep attacking or FD".

Paladins, on the other hand, have a much more diverse pool of options to choose from at any moment. Their decision tree has a lot more branches, and they are considerably more complex to pilot well as a result, and thus a good Paladin stands out much more clearly from a bad one. For example, imagine a scenario where you're tanking for a dungeon group and suddenly get trained by several adds, including a caster or two. One of your group members is immediately getting hammered and will be dead within seconds, and things look bleak. The Monk is basically powerless in this situation, and can't do anything except try to DPS the mobs down and then FD to save himself and prepare to CR the group.

In contrast, the Paladin can Lay on Hands the group member to save them, attack one mob to get agro, toss a stun on another to agro it, root a third out of melee range, drag the caster mobs around a corner and root them to keep them from casting on the group, then go back and help the group start downing the mobs one by one. Paladins have a toolkit that allows them to "make plays" in this regard better than every other class besides Bards, and thus a well-played Paladin is, like a well-played Bard, very obvious, memorable, and appreciated.

Paladins are also much easier to gear than Monks due to less competition for their high-end items, and their damage is very respectable with a good 2H weapon. A skilled Paladin will always be a welcome addition to any group or raid, certainly more so than just another forgettable warmbody DPS Monk. If you want to play a Paladin, don't let your friend discourage you. It's a great and highly capable class.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Outside of pulling, Monks are by far the most braindead class in the game. Literally just auto-attacking while enjoying the best get-out-jail-free card possible with FD, so they're basically never punished for their mistakes compared to every other class. The class pretty much plays itself, especially once well-geared. For this reason, it's very difficult to tell a good Monk from a bad Monk if they aren't doing difficult pulls. The decision tree of a Monk at any given moment is basically, "Keep attacking or FD".

Paladins, on the other hand, have a much more diverse pool of options to choose from at any moment. Their decision tree has a lot more branches, and they are considerably more complex to pilot well as a result, and thus a good Paladin stands out much more clearly from a bad one. For example, imagine a scenario where you're tanking for a dungeon group and suddenly get trained by several adds, including a caster or two. One of your group members is immediately getting hammered and will be dead within seconds, and things look bleak. The Monk is basically powerless in this situation, and can't do anything except try to DPS the mobs down and then FD to save himself and prepare to CR the group.

In contrast, the Paladin can Lay on Hands the group member to save them, attack one mob to get agro, toss a stun on another to agro it, root a third out of melee range, drag the caster mobs around a corner and root them to keep them from casting on the group, then go back and help the group start downing the mobs one by one. Paladins have a toolkit that allows them to "make plays" in this regard better than every other class besides Bards, and thus a well-played Paladin is, like a well-played Bard, very obvious, memorable, and appreciated.

Paladins are also much easier to gear than Monks due to less competition for their high-end items, and their damage is very respectable with a good 2H weapon. A skilled Paladin will always be a welcome addition to any group or raid, certainly more so than just another forgettable warmbody DPS Monk. If you want to play a Paladin, don't let your friend discourage you. It's a great and highly capable class.

Paladins are one of those classes where the worse your group is the more valuable you are. Stopping a wipe or making a challenging pull easy is a great feeling for a hybrid.

Realistically though, in 2025, on two aged servers, more often than not your entire purpose as wipestopper gets pre-empted by a single well-placed AOE mez. Nobody rolls without an enchanter.

I agree though overall, this is precisely why I love to play hybrids against my better judgment. Although monk pulling in a place like sebilis or mistmoore is some of the greatest emergent gameplay in any MMO, ever.

[Cecily]

Counterpoint. CC is less of big deal when your tank isn't doing negative DPS.

[Snaggles]

They are totally different classes. Basically two different tools.

I’m jealous of your friend. Navigating life without the pesky need to consider nuance must be nice.

[Snaggles]

On behalf of clerics and dps classes…I very much enjoy anytime a knight tanks.

Less spot heals and going harder on the dps makes a grind/raid fun. Plus, Paladins have an underrated kit. DA and Sanctification are amazing in VP and many other situations.

[kjs86z2]

monks are better in duos and trios where everyone's DPS matters

ill take a paladin in a full group any day, make the monk pull