Gearing a ranger

[bcbrown]

I've gotten my ranger up to 51 now, with mostly EC gear but a couple fun no-drop weapons. I have a couple questions on armor as well, but wanted to start with weapons. I've got:

Fellspine's Tail, 7/17
Revultant Whip, 5/14
Jagged Blade of Mourning, 13/25
Infestation 9/18 w/ 150 damage poison proc
Woodsman's Staff 31/35
Swarmcaller 29/41 w/ slow proc

What should I be using? I'm going to be doing some parsing but just from superficial impressions it seems like the woody is going to be better than any combination of the one-handers.

What are the next upgrades? It seems like the woody is so good it might be a long time before I get anything better. I'm close to swiftwind but not earthcaller; would something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind be better than woody and SCHW for haste? SWoZ? Scimitar of the Emerald Dawn? What should I be looking for and planning for?

[kjs86z2]

woodsmans staff til epic is the standard

keep swarmcaller around its fantastic for weird duos / trios

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

would something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind be better than woody and SCHW for haste? SWoZ?

It will be better dps. For soloing, it may not be the best strategy though, unless you're fear kiting. For face tanking, I'd probably try jousting/bow rotting with Herbalist's Spade/Swarmcaller.

I wouldn't over think droppable upgrades too much. I would just grind it out til raid loot. That's where all the fun upgrades are.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It will be better dps. For soloing, it may not be the best strategy though, unless you're fear kiting. For face tanking, I'd probably try jousting/bow rotting with Herbalist's Spade/Swarmcaller.

I wouldn't over think droppable upgrades too much. I would just grind it out til raid loot. That's where all the fun upgrades are.

Yeah I would have thought Bow Kiting, Fear Kiting, or Jousting would be the way to go on a Ranger in their 50s. Mobs will start hitting too hard to simply face tank efficiently, especially when you get unlucky on your Swarmcaller Procs. I guess you could face tank while dumping your mana into healing, but that won't be very efficient.

[Goregasmic]

Herbalist's spade is better than woodsman if you don't mind the root proc. Not by a huge marging so it depends on your budget. Argent protector is kinda nice with the 49dly for bowing if you're so inclined. Decent stats too. Not much worse than woodsman.

Wurmslayer sucks ass, you lose out on the damage bonus too much, at 60 it is about on par with a lamentation. Might work pre damage bonus but you don't want to DW until ~50 anyway. For mainhand If you have the budget SBoZ is hard to beat, exquisite velium battle hammer at 12/20 isn't too bad either for half the price. But unless you can DW like... horn of hsagra and a Blade of carnage (and even then) you're not gonna touch the efficiency of a shovel/woodsman. And a shovel + COCW or SSHB will give you best damage + 34% haste for about the price of a single SBoZ.

[Snaggles]

Woodsman was often seen as beat by a great 1h (like SBOZ) and epic. TBH, I’m not sure if that was true and these days 2h have a better advantage as the damage bonus grows in the late 50’s. Killing some 6 min spawns like Dyrna I used to mix in Firestrike for a dps boost with a 2h. Plus if the mob has a damage shield, 2h isn’t a suicide mission.

The Rev whip is fun but in my experience wasn’t quite as good as a 10/18. I still use my mine on occasion just for fun.

I’d prob just stay the course with the Woodsman. Maybe even loot a raid 2h and never bother with 1h’s. Unless you get a raid 1h first. That bump between EC and ntov is significant with a ranger. Not needed but it’s very noticeable.

Edit: I doubt a HoH would out damage a SBoZ consistently. It’s a 1.833 vs 1.855 ratio and I recall piercing at 60 caps 10 points lower, which should be about a 30attack power disadvantage.

[Goregasmic]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

Offhand:
Swiftwind = 1.238 (and 41% haste)
SBoZ = 1.222
BoC = 1.304

2h:
Argent P. = 2.571
Woodsman = 2.611
Herb shovel = 2,674

Technically a SBoZ + epic scores 3,071 which is higher than the 2handers but you have what, 40% miss rate on offhands? So that swiftwind 1.238 becomes 0.743 so 2.576 combined which is about on par with an argent protector that is now worth 2,5k on green. Nothing wrong with 1handers but they're a lot more money/hassle for similar results on paper. 5% extra haste and +30atk with swiftwind compared to a 36% item and you free up a slot though so that's nice but you now have to get at least a CBoL just to stay on par with a cheap 2hander.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

Offhand:
Swiftwind = 1.238 (and 41% haste)
SBoZ = 1.222
BoC = 1.304

2h:
Argent P. = 2.571
Woodsman = 2.611
Herb shovel = 2,674

Technically a SBoZ + epic scores 3,071 which is higher than the 2handers but you have what, 40% miss rate on offhands? So that swiftwind 1.238 becomes 0.743 so 2.576 combined which is about on par with an argent protector that is now worth 2,5k on green. Nothing wrong with 1handers but they're a lot more money/hassle for similar results on paper. 5% extra haste and +30atk with swiftwind compared to a 36% item and you free up a slot though so that's nice but you now have to get at least a CBoL just to stay on par with a cheap 2hander.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

That being said, Fear Kiting, Bow Kiting, or Jousting would probably work better for solo Rangers in their 50s. 1h weapons don't work well for any of those strategies, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

Hopefully Bcbrown will share some parsing at some point to see if there is any significant difference between Monks and Rangers. Monks do have higher dual wield in the low 50s, so that will be a bit different from a Ranger.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=440

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

That being said, Fear Kiting, Bow Kiting, or Jousting would probably work better for solo Rangers in their 50s. 1h weapons don't work well for any of those strategies, so it's somewhat of a moot point.

Hopefully Bcbrown will share some parsing at some point to see if there is any significant difference between Monks and Rangers. Monks do have higher dual wield in the low 50s, so that will be a bit different from a Ranger.

Yeah, as usual, trust but verify especially before 60 if you care to optimize. At 50 damage bonus and DW starts being significant and at 55+ ranger get an innate offensive bonus. Might play out a little different from expectations. Also, the mobs you fight might mix it up a little.

The previous numbers are weapon basics but other factors may skew the results. It is possible epic + SBoZ fares better (I'd hope so) but you're probably not too far off with an AP especially considering bow damage, weaving casts and jousting like snaggles said... for less than a tenth of the price.

If anything we're seeing both options are viable, which it kinda nice but it depends on your budget. I'm a big fan of slow two handers, feel so good when double attack connects for max damage but missing 4 times in a row when the mob is about to flee and you're about to hit low hp aggro... it makes you want to scream. I know some people can't stand it and I understand.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mainhand:
Rev whip = 1.5
Jade mace = 1.611
Earthcaller = 1.625
GCM = 1.65
CBoL = 1.722
Exq. Velium = 1.75
SBoZ = 1.833
HOH = 1.855

How are these numbers calculated?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did a post on 1h vs 2h DPS for my 52 Monk. In the low 50s 1h combos can out DPS 2h weapons. This is because the 2h damage bonus is smaller. My Epic Fist + SoS was out DPSing an IFS when I wasn't fistweaving. They were very similar when fistweaving. Rangers can't fistweave, so it wouldn't surprise me if something like Wurmslayer + Swiftwind could out-DPS a Woodsman Staff at 52.

Your combat model is neither useful nor accurate. The difference between your estimate for the FM giants (34 vs 34.34) and your actual parsed results (30.67 DPS vs 31.5) is larger than the difference between the two sets of weapons. You also need to use the actual results (when you scale your Coroduth numbers by 30.67 / 55.7 to find that "mitigation offset" number). Any approach that needs the actual results when making an estimate is, to use a technical term, fucked beyond redemption.

It's both simpler and just as accurate to just calculate (2*damage + damage bonus) / delay as a way to compare different weapons. And if that gives you a result where two weapon-sets come out within a DPS or two, you can either treat them as equivalent or do the actual parsing to confirm.