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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,216
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010204...ML/052807.html
Quote:
Talanic
Station Member posted 01-29-2001 03:16 PM
One of the major midlevel concerns is Selo's Consonant Chain, a snare-type song.
It was accidentally nerfed because a 51+ version was put in that was overpowered. The correction for the 51+ version broke the lower version.
Currently, Chains can be expected to break anywhere from 0 to 9 seconds after application, with about a 30-60% resist rate. It also doesn't always stop things.
A higher level problem is that bard armor is frequently made with chainmail AC (though it's usually corrected a few weeks later). The new Velious armors are no exception--all the other Velious armors are same as Kunark armors, but with stats instead of spells, same or greater AC. Bard Velious armor has less AC...and the stats aren't too impressive either (2 str 3 cha?).
Also, there are STILL no mid-level instruments.
A HUGE thing I've been pushing for is for enchanter haste and bard haste to stack better. That would encourage the classes to group. Bard hastes are puny compared to enchanter's.
If an Enchanter is in the group, the Enchanter takes over all the Bard's roles but can do a better job of them. Mesmerize? Enchanter. Haste? Heh, twice as fast. Snare? Bah, Bard snare doesn't work. Clarity/C2 stack with Manasong, sure, but the party would be better off ditching the bard for a tank since the Enchanter outdoes the Bard in all ways. Haste stacking would allow for cooperation there.
Also, check back on the guy in the Temple of Solusek Ro. He says to ask him later about a special bardic weapon; he never responds. It's been more than a year.
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Quote:
Dante00
Station Member posted 01-29-2001 03:30 PM
Ok here are the minor and major problems I see facing bards.
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Song stacking
You simply need to fix the stacking problem. I hate having to constantly stop cantina for
clarity or regen songs. I hate playing level 50 song and having the enc wonder why sos
isn't sticking. Quite simply make it so bard songs dont prevent songs from being casted,
and prevent a slower bard haste effect from ruining a better haste effect.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010206.../052807-2.html
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kaluian
Station Member posted 01-29-2001 05:47 PM
Hello Absor. I play a 55th bard and a 52nd bard. I have been playing my bard since 1 month after the release of EverQuest, and I have completed several high end bard tasks, including several Sky Quests, and my Epic Weapon. Thus, I feel I am qualified to comment about bards.
First, let me suggest the one nerf that I believe is justified for our class. Add mana-usage to our 27th level charm song. As it is, this charm is ridiculously powerful, and makes soloing gobs of experience easy. Adding manausage to this song, as in the 37th level charm, would definitely be justified.
However, despite the power of our charm, there are several issues with the higher level game. First, let me address our crowd control abilities.
Our crowd control is perfectly balanced. I can mez 3 mobs consistently, 4 with a bit of luck and while taking a bit of pounding. However, our charm begins to decrease in usefulness as we level. Quite simply, the level cap on charm needs to be raised from 51 to 54 or 55. The level cap on SoT needs to be raised to 57. And, while we're discussing level caps, the level cap on Appalling Screech (Fear) needs to be raised to 55 or 56. The songs are perfect, and just as they should be, however, the level caps simply need reworking.
For ideas on our healing, damage output, haste, and mana regeneration, please refer to the excellent articles Thott linked to. Also note that bards were originally the only class with mana regeneration abilities, and enchanters were given the ability as not to give bards a monopoly. I feel that our abilities should reflect this, and slightly increasing the efficiency of Chorus of Clarity and Cantana would not be out of line.
Please allow the enchanter spells Breeze, Clarity, and Clarity 2 to overwrite Cantana. It is obnoxious as all hell to have to stop my manasong every time some caster in my group wants a c2.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010207.../052807-3.html
Quote:
Absor
Station Member posted 01-29-2001 07:04 PM
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>"Song stacking
You simply need to fix the stacking problem. I hate having to constantly stop cantina for
clarity or regen songs. I hate playing level 50 song and having the enc wonder why sos
isn't sticking. Quite simply make it so bard songs dont prevent songs from being casted,
and prevent a slower bard haste effect from ruining a better haste effect. "<
Ok, on the list.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010306.../052807-4.html
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Sephrenia-GD
Station Member posted 01-29-2001 08:34 PM
Wow this thread is getting long but here's my 2cp.
Most of us think that our kunark armor stinks apart from the nice AC. You took away the stats and the effects are way more than unbalanced. Invigor on the vambraces and invigorate on the breastplate while rangers are getting a gate, clerics are getting Complete Heal. Shamans get a 250pt dd on their bracer. Hello? The stupid invigorate is pointless we have stamina effect in our lvl 55 song Cantana of Replenishment as well as our jiggy song. The same with the Plane of Growth armor. People are getting nice effects on their boots, do bards? No. The bard breastplate is 42AC with some stats and lvl 51 song. What do clerics get? A lvl 57 heal as well as 42 AC! Where is this balance?
So I would like to see our kunark and PoG armor revised and upgraded.
The other main grumble is that any caster/enchanter will tell you that we have stacking problems with our lvl 55 song Cantana of replenishment. While singing that song no one can cast clarity or any type of regen/chloropast spell on any member of the group. YET if the song is stopped and clarity and/or regen/chloro is cast and then restart the lvl 55 song. Yes it stacks that way. I advise you while you are doing your testing. Be a bard in a multi group hunt for one day and find out how annoying this is starting and stoping all the time. IF the song stacks one way it should stack the other way. It needs to be fixed.
Finally if enough bards haven't told you, that the drum graphic looks pathetic. Put us back to gliding if you want to. At least that looked more bardic than that rubbish.
Sephrenia Sweetawine
60th song
Ayonae Ro
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010306.../052807-5.html
Quote:
Keadaian
Station Member posted 01-30-2001 02:26 AM
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>"Song stacking
You simply need to fix the stacking problem. I hate having to constantly stop cantina for
clarity or regen songs. I hate playing level 50 song and having the enc wonder why sos
isn't sticking. Quite simply make it so bard songs dont prevent songs from being casted,
and prevent a slower bard haste effect from ruining a better haste effect. "<
Ok, on the list.
Just want to make sure we're clear here. The problem is NOT that the song does not stack with the spell. The problem is that the spell can not be cast while the song is in effect. Most of the time, it's just a matter of the shaman saying "Hey bard, can you stop the heal song so I can cast regen" which is annoying but ok. however, if Regen goes down mid battle it gets a lot dicier.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010215...ML/055105.html
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Aanar
Station Member posted 02-06-2001 08:33 AM
Well my primary characters is a cleric (now 56). I started a bard after about 5 months after release to play on the side as an alt. Mostly I soloed. The short downtime was great and I had a lot of fun when I needed a break. My bard is 46 now.
I've been in groups where the difference between us all dying and pulling it off has been the bard singing mana song so I would have mana to heal people. From all the songs I have at 46, I have a hard time finding anything more effective for a well balanced group. As soon as an enchanter shows up, I try to have them haste since it's better anyway, the extra mana they get from the song should more than make up for it. Manasong and snare is about all I end up doing then. I figure the extra mana lets the casters nuke more or otherwise reduce downtime much more than if I played dots. I guess once I get the new slow song it will be a different story. The level 34 mana/regen/jig song is nice, but the instrument requirement makes it hard to twist in.
And as others say, I can't really stand twisting for more than a few hours. I like the idea of more combo songs. It would be nicer to just put something in client side to somehow auto-twist.
From the number of mana drain songs in game going to bards, you'd think bards where intended to be masters of stealing mana. As it is now, enchanters are better at this. IMO, enchanters are masters of enough other things (mana regen, haste, crowd control), perhaps upping these songs to make bards masters of draining mana would be an apropriate specialist niche.
As it is now bards seem to be masters of running, resists, and maybe flexibility. Perhaps that is enough.
One thing to fix, please make clarity 2 stack with the 55 catana. As it is now, the enchanter gets annoyed having to ask the bard to drop the song to give everyone clarity.
Either give bards a higher or equal haste % song than enchanters or put in more stacking haste songs (~5-10%).
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010303.../055105-3.html
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DoctorDoctor
Station Member posted 02-08-2001 11:31 AM
You're doing an awesome job Absor. Thanks for the patience to read all of these posts. I didn't have a chance to read them all, so pardon if this is redundant.
1) Remove the haste component of lvl 57 song rousing rondo. Then it could be twisted with lvl 54 celerity song. As it is now the haste is so slow that it does not seem to be an upgrade at all. Maybe it wasn't meant as an upgrade, but because it has haste component it seems like it is. I realize it raises str, attack and provides damage shield but all in all pure haste (celerity) seems better.
2) Remove the time based restriction on 56 level songs Highsun and Midnight. Are there any other spells that are time restricted like this? Just wondering why these are. They dont seem to be so awesomely powerful that it would really matter. As it is now, hardly any bard would keep them memmed since they take up 25% of your spell slots to do so and have 50% chance of not even being castable.
I think this especially goes for Song of Midnight. It would be nice upgrade to level 26 fear song, but because its not usable half the time we cant use it really. There is hardly any reason to ever use this song instead of lvl 26 song.
3) I wish level 55 bombastic bellow had faster recast time. 222 damage isn't really that much at level 55+ anyway so I rarely have it memmed.
4) Remove instrument requirement for occlusion of sound. Then simply make it do less without instrument like most songs.
5) It would be nice if level 57 mana drain song would drain more mana. As it is now you can almost med faster than I can drain. Wis/int debuffs certainly helps but in the entire scheme of things not by that much. Now if this were AoE then that would be better I suppose.
6) Level 49 shield of songs is a great song, but the noise created is kinda annoying. Sounds like an alarm clock. A lot of people complain to me about it.
7) It would be very very nice if enchanter mezz would overwrite bard mezz. As you may know, if bard mezzes mob then enchanter mezzes the same mob, the mob becomes unmezzed completely when bard mezz wears off.
8) It would be nice if clarity, clarity II and HP regen could be cast over lvl 55 mana song. It's really annoying trying to coordinate dropping song before casting these spells.
9) I don't have the Ervaj line of songs yet, but it seems to me that requiring an instrument isn't optimal. Seems like it should be like most songs, more haste when using an instrument, less when not.
Don't have any comments on 58-60 level songs since I'm 57 level.
-Dumaine
57 Bard
The Rathe
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010303.../055105-4.html
Quote:
Iwave24
Station Member posted 02-10-2001 02:10 AM
What can I say,the defensive skills added on the test server are nice but too little a little too late.I keep hearing talk about balancing classes when little if anything is being done.
At 33 I am finding it hard to level.Just yesterday I was grouped with a druid,ranger,paladin,enchanter and a shaman in the overthere.Every few minutes I started getting complaints in downtime to turn my mana song off because the chanter couldnt cast clarity.Then after I did, people started asking me why I wasn't playing the mana song.When we were fighting I was twisting 4 songs as best I could,(mana song, anthem , hymn and psalm of cooling though only 3 showed up during my twists)when all the casters start nagging me to play the mana song.The shaman asked me to just play the mana song and melee because his buffs were better and he needed my song to stack with clarity so he could continue to cast his dot and still have mana for buffs.So it seems I was relegated to mana battery during the whole time we were grouped.All the time I spent lvling,I kept hearing that the mana song would be a blessing that would give me more opportunities,Had I known that being a bard past 32 was just going relegate me to mana battery,I would have chosen another class. there are several things that keep us from being a balanced class
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010303.../055105-5.html
Quote:
gestaltmind
Station Member posted 02-11-2001 09:47 AM
Actually thinking about it- simpler coding would be....
Okay- Bards can have 3 songs playing.
You can't start a 4th song.
This would be trivial to program and achieve the same affect.
Code would involve changing the code to which checks that another song isn't playing to check that three other songs were not playing. No other code changes needed except something ot make sure you couldn't twist a 3/4 slot.
I think the idea of a good haste song which didn't stack and a poor haste song which did stack would be great. You could make a low level song (L11-L19) with poor haste (5%) which stacked. This low level stackable haste would give groups a reason to pull in Bards. Then make high level haste songs (L40+) which didn't stack.
As an enchanter, I drool over the idea of having a bard in my group. I have to work around them a bit (the fact that they constantly retarget me to them is an issue) but clarity does stack with mana song in the correct order and then you have almost unlimited mana L45-L52 (after that it is still fast- just not fast enough. B) )
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08-23-2023, 05:55 PM
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