Any roll for loot guilds on Green?

[Algustus]

Hey folks. I've played off and on since Green was born and have 3 characters in the 50s. I have a busy life that limits my availability for raids, etc but I am able to play a lot, just mostly 1 to 2 hours at a time. When I arrange time to go on a raid with my guildies I want the same chance at loot as anyone else on the raid. I hate camping dungeons for 6 hours just to have the guild elites with thousands of points to spend grabbing all the loot they want and those of us that can't raid as often only get the stuff no one else wants. Are there any guilds on Green that use random loot for raids, etc?

[charmcitysking3]

I think <The Drift> rolls loot

[Algustus]

Originally Posted by charmcitysking3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think <The Drift> rolls loot

Thank you!

[PatChapp]

There is a semi weekly west ToV armor farm that is random for loots,using a pick 3 system.
There is posts about it on this forum.
Dkp isn't all that bad, if you show up and help you'll get loot. Yea highly wanted stuff will goto people who have shown up and contributed more,but you can equip yourself fine as a casual.

[Ooloo]

Remember that people who play way more than you, and thus are able to contribute to their guild far more, will also be pretty peeved if some dude who almost never raids wins a roll on something they want. DKP is the standard for a good reason in this game.

Also remember that when somebody with a lot of DKP spends a huge amount on a highly sought after item, they now might have less DKP than you do, depending on the guild. Casuals can accrue hundreds of dkp also, it just takes longer.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember that people who play way more than you, and thus are able to contribute to their guild far more, will also be pretty peeved if some dude who almost never raids wins a roll on something they want. DKP is the standard for a good reason in this game.

Also remember that when somebody with a lot of DKP spends a huge amount on a highly sought after item, they now might have less DKP than you do, depending on the guild. Casuals can accrue hundreds of dkp also, it just takes longer.

Anyone who is hugely against roll loot is way too addicted to this game and needs to step back

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone who is hugely against roll loot is way too addicted to this game and needs to step back

Or they understand how the game works, and that humans are naturally motivated to help themselves.

To reduce this to the simplest detail possible: some mobs only drop melee gear, some only drop caster. If you are a melee class in a /random loot guild, every raid you go on to a mob that only drops caster loot is time wasted, and vice versa for casters raiding melee mobs. Pretty soon such guilds can't do (say) Vindi: when they try no casters show up, because they have no reason to.

That's just one basic example, but obviously it's not just about melee vs. caster: whatever your class, the majority of mobs won't drop stuff you can use, but they will need a variety of classes to be beaten. Ultimately, the random system is only sustainable for small guilds. If your guild only does stuff like Plane of Sky (where there are drops for everyone) and doesn't do too many epics (so people don't get tired of "wasting" time helping others) then it can be a sustainable model for a guild ...

... but even then, as I pointed out before, it sucks for the casual player, because they can only get gear by going on the raids for "their items" and then winning the random roll. They can't increase their chances of getting said items by attending "worthless" raids, the way members of DKP guilds can.

At the end of the day EQ raiding is about a bunch of people cooperating to get each other loot. A system that encourages such cooperation is going to work better for most ... which is why DKP (or shudder loot councils) are so prevalent.

[Infectious]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or they understand how the game works, and that humans are naturally motivated to help themselves.

To reduce this to the simplest detail possible: some mobs only drop melee gear, some only drop caster. If you are a melee class in a /random loot guild, every raid you go on to a mob that only drops caster loot is time wasted, and vice versa for casters raiding melee mobs. Pretty soon such guilds can't do (say) Vindi: when they try no casters show up, because they have no reason to.

That's just one basic example, but obviously it's not just about melee vs. caster: whatever your class, the majority of mobs won't drop stuff you can use, but they will need a variety of classes to be beaten. Ultimately, the system is only sustainable for small guilds. If your guild only does stuff like Plane of Sky (where there are drops for everyone) and doesn't do too many epics (so people don't get tired of "wasting" time helping others) then it can be a sustainable model for a guild ...

... but even then, as I pointed out before, it sucks for the casual player, because they can only get gear by going on the raids for "their items" and then winning the random roll. They can't increase their chances of getting said items by attending "worthless" raids, the way members of DKP guilds can.

At the end of the day EQ raiding is about a bunch of people cooperating to get each other loot. A system that encourages such cooperation is going to work better for most ... which is why DKP (or /shudder loot councils) are so prevalent.

Perfectly put. Please add this to wiki.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or they understand how the game works, and that humans are naturally motivated to help themselves.

To reduce this to the simplest detail possible: some mobs only drop melee gear, some only drop caster. If you are a melee class in a /random loot guild, every raid you go on to a mob that only drops caster loot is time wasted, and vice versa for casters raiding melee mobs. Pretty soon such guilds can't do (say) Vindi: when they try no casters show up, because they have no reason to.

That's just one basic example, but obviously it's not just about melee vs. caster: whatever your class, the majority of mobs won't drop stuff you can use. Ultimately, the system is only sustainable for small guilds. If your guild only does stuff like Plane of Sky (where there are drops for everyone) and doesn't do too many epics (so people don't get tired of "wasting" time helping others) then it can be a sustainable model for a guild ...

... but even then, as I pointed out before, it sucks for the casual player, because they can only get gear by going on the raids for "their items" and then winning the random roll. They can't increase their chances of getting said items by attending "worthless" raids, the way members of DKP guilds can.

At the end of the day EQ raiding is about a bunch of people cooperating to get each other loot. A system that encourages such cooperation is going to work better for most ... which is why DKP (or /shudder loot councils) are so prevalent.

I mean your point would be valid if guilds that did roll loot had casters or melees not showing up for raids/encounters unless the drops helped them. But that doesn't happen. The roll loot guilds I have seen over the years all have regular participation from caster/melee in everything (plus, a lot of those guilds may allow rolling for alts too if you're able to get the alt there in time to loot...so that obviates the issue altogether).

[loramin]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(plus, a lot of those guilds may allow rolling for alts too if you're able to get the alt there in time to loot...so that obviates the issue altogether).

Again, the model works best and tends to be used most by the low-level guilds, which are exactly the ones least likely to have members with multiple raid-level alts. Think about the random guilds you've known: were the like Seal Team and Kingdom (where most members have multiple 60s), or were they like Castle ... or were they like Freya's Chariot? I don't know Freya's Chariot, but I'm willing to guess their average member doesn't even have two 60's.

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But that doesn't happen. The roll loot guilds I have seen over the years all have regular participation from caster/melee in everything

Maybe for awhile, but the very fact that we could only come up with a single active random guild on the entire server shows the ultimate fate of most such guilds.