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#1
03-25-2021, 10:32 PM
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Complex Warrior Question - Proc Threat Amounts
Trying to do a Deep Dive here on the amount of threat generated per proc by warrior threat weapons. From what ive seen in other threads procs here are normalized meaning all weapons are going to have the same PPM ? So in theory the amount of threat generated by the proc itself and delay (swing agro) should determine hate gain?
Starting off looking at the top end of threat weapons used here Sceptre of Destruction - 12/18 - Decrease Hitpoints by 288, Stun for 0.0 seconds - Magic (0), Obviously the highest threat item in the game given the dmg of the proc and the stun, but given the scarcity of this weapon on P99 Im not really interested in comparing it with the others. (1) - Ratio (2) - 100% Haste Ratio Jaelen's Katana - 14/19(0.7368)(1.4736) - Decrease Hitpoints by 80 - Unresistable, Lifetap Silver Whip of Rage - 13/19(0.6842)(1.3684) - Increase Absorb Damage by 150 - Rune Willsapper - 13/20(0.6500)(1.300) - Decrease Attack Speed 35% - Magic (0) Trident of the Deep Sea - 14/22(0.6363)(1.2727) - Decrease Attack Speed by 10%, Decrease Hitpoints by 20 per tick - Cold (0) Blade of Strategy - 14/24(0.5833)(1.1666) - Decrease HP when cast by 100, Increase Hate by 500 - Fire (0) Skullcrusher of Kragg - 16/28(0.5714)(1.1428) - Stun for 4.0 seconds up to level 55 - Magic (0) I know people consider Trident BiS MH with Jalen's OH, Im just wondering why? Is it simply because the the Tridents proc is Cold based and resisted less than the MR based Willsapper or FR based Rage of Vallon? Does Willsaper/Trident slow generate the same amount of hate despite the 25% difference? Does it actually generate more threat than the rune from a silver whip or more raw threat than the +500 from Rage of Vallon? | ||
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Last edited by Hibren; 03-25-2021 at 10:36 PM..
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#3
03-26-2021, 12:38 AM
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SOD
Feverblade Veridix's/Verdrax Maelstrom Howling Cutlass Red Epic Willsapper Malevolent Runeblade Sword of the Shissar Black Dragoneye Tunare Whip Trident Kriezenn Flame Jaleans Vyemm Whip Rounds out the top 15 for mainhand. Offhand: SOD Feverblade Trident Veridix's Red Epic Sword of the Shissar Blade of the Black Dragoneye Tunare Whip Vyemm Whip Jalean's Katana Malevolent Runeblade Howling cutlass Maelstrom Frostbringer Chelaki Tail Top 15 for offhand. Mix and match, have fun. Feverblade and redblade is the realistic BiS aggro generation you're ever going to get, suitable for trash tanking, xp groups, HoT etc. -Raid tanking there's a great argument for Trident+Redblade for the CR slow on mainhand and switch after proc. -Slowable raid tanking silly not to use sapper+trident then switch to something better. -AoW, Vyemm and Tunare tanking max the hp so Redblade and Jaelen. -Rampage tanking obv horn of hsagra+whitestone. -Soloing shit in chardok Jaleans and blue blade. -DPS in the crowd Kriezenn flame/Vyemm Club and blue blade. - | ||
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#4
06-07-2021, 03:55 AM
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First of all, there is quite a bit of misinformation in this thread. Off the bat an important one to correct is that a proc needs to land to generate agro. Whether the proc is fully resisted, partially resisted, or fully lands, it generates the same amount of threat.
White damage (weapon ratio) is more important now that there is a cap on the threat from procs. The way threat from a proc changed is that the agro component is capped at 400 threat (ie poison counters, stuns, slows, snares, etc.). However, if the is a DD or DoT as part of the proc, that gets added on top of the 400. So that is why some VP weaps have made a comeback. As an example, feverblade was mentioned which has the disease counters that hit the 400 hate cap. But it also has 110dd AND a DoT. So the threat from the proc is 400 + 110 + the dot. And the ratio is pretty good at 11/18. However, it may not be used as commonly on raids due to having 0 hp / ac or any other stats. Trident is highly regarded because the slow is cold based, therefore it can land on otherwise unslowable mobs like Vyemm or Kreizenn. And even aside from that it is a very good threat weapon anyways, with a solid ratio a 400 threat proc + DoT, and 50hp and 10 stam. The following post is so bad it isn't even worth correcting. Maybe half the information is accurate. Quote:
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#5
06-08-2021, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
After velious it became feverblade + WESS, again by such a laughable margin it wasn’t worth even using anything else if you wanted max threat gen. Post nerf it’s epic and SOD that made the comebacks. Feverblade is still OP, just not to the hilarious extent it was for the 7 years prior. As for that list, mix of models and extensive testing with most of them. Reality is you don’t want BIS aggro generation most of the time, you want to provide the utility of an additional MR slow, a CR slow, huge HP and moderate hate gen. All through this sever we’ve had strings and prayers for aggro when it’s needed most in the game (hoshkar, nexona, gore nothing else warrants max aggro gen). Hence you’re maybe butthurt or something. But within the realms of flipping a position here or there, or subbing in some other very equivalent weapon down the list it’s dead accurate for hate generation which is specifically what was asked. Was even warrior specific hence the lack of salindrite listed which is comically more aggro than red blade, for example. You’re a silly head if you think anything but a sapper and trident is worth getting if you had to just pick two simple common drops that are cheap. Those two, GG. Find some stats elsewhere. | |||
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#6
06-09-2021, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
To circle back to your original list, the ones that immediately jump out as ranging from bad options or ridiculously bad options are: Howling Cutlass, Maelstrom, Tunare Whip, Kriezenn Flame, Vyemm whip, Frostbringer, and Chelaki Tail Also "-Rampage tanking obv horn of hsagra+whitestone." is dead wrong. There are five 100hp main hand weapons. "-DPS in the crowd Kriezenn flame/Vyemm Club and blue blade." Jaelen's and Tuna Braid are both better main hand options than kreizenn flame and vyemm club. Those are pretty awful weapons for a warrior to waste dkp on. | ||||
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#7
03-26-2021, 11:52 AM
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Red blade / Trident if competitive raid guild. Willsapper or Vilefang wep + frostbringer if group / casual guild...hope this helps!
__________________
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#8
03-26-2021, 02:59 PM
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Not looking for weapon advice, I don't even play a warrior. Which explains why I didn't know about a lot of the VP War threat weapons, Solist mentioned.
I want to know why / how people determine how much threat these weapons generate and what makes one better than the other. Like Feverblade, what makes a comparatively small disease DoT proc generate that much threat? Is it more the 18 delay generating a lot of swing agro? Or is there something I'm missing about the proc that causes large amounts of threat? I know dots like flame lick cause a huge amount of agro, but I always believed it was the AC Debuff that was generating most of that threat. Is there just a large threat mod attached to DoTs? | ||
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Last edited by Hibren; 03-26-2021 at 03:09 PM..
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#9
03-27-2021, 08:17 AM
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Procs are capped at 400 aggro for the non damage portion of the proc, so slows, poisons/disease counters, stuns, etc gives up to 400 aggro. The damage portion of the proc is 1 aggro per point of damage. So for feverblade you get 400 aggro for the counters, 110 from the dd portion, dot damage aggro, and 11/18 for great white damage output aggro. For spells ur class can cast you are not capped at the 400 aggro, so the ac debuff portion of flame lick provides whatever max aggro it is set to, probably 600 or so not sure on its threat max
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#10
03-31-2021, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
For WESS, are the blind and atk debuff components handled separately (400 for the blind and 400 for the attack debuff) or is it all rolled together with the counters (400 total)? | |||
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Hybrid Mode
