Camps or no camps

[JDFriend99]

Greetings,

Not short but bitter. (Skip if you don't care)

I have played on this server for approximately 9 years and during that time one thing is never changed. A player's ability to try to grief other players by demanding camps or spawns because they're online and they want it. I have continually argued with players online, even involved GM's and had a few people banned. I would like to have as many people as possible post under this comment, and give a consensus that's how you feel about the server and how Camp rules are being observed or disregarded. I have always known our play nice policy and read the EULA agreement when playing this game. I have generally understood it to be either camps determined by the zone or buy a static spawn mob, meaning the mob does not run around in path. If the mob roams and paths generally it has been a first to engage. I would like one of the developers or controllers of the server to get involved in this post and also become involved online and enforcing once again the rules of the server. We are a community of players who are quite frankly Fed Up with allowing players to get away with their version of the rules to maintain a server population. (End my version)

I now share the link to the play nice policy still currently listed as of

November 5th, 2018

.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=132299

If this is out of date as some have argued with me then I call upon the acting GM Sirken or Rogean to amend or replace this article with current rules of the server to be the end all be all of in game tolerances. There should be no gray area in a virtual world, we have enough of that in our own lives. Thanks to all of you especially our server architects and regulators as they work hard at what they do.

Those of you who are new or maybe inherit accounts and aren't familiar we do have rules, I cite them everyday when I'm online it seems and enough is enough. I'm not paid to help out or do anything I do, I simply do it because it is right and many online are wrong in how they play and who they defile with their actions. Please read the rules and post as you see fit. Agree or disagree. I want to see who likes rules as they are and who wants it changed. It's time for action and if change is needed to ensure a enjoyed experience by all then so be it. Give your thoughts.

Many and I mean many, of us are done governing for ourselves and getting upset when we are challenged or grieved by a few. Those few need to be watched and dealt with when a petition is sent.

Tluth (necro guardian of those that can't fight)

[azeth]

The most heated drama fests occur because people forget this line:

"That being said, you can absolutely "camp" mobs, and you cannot steal another players 'camp'. In general, if the placeholder or placeholders for a spawn are being killed, that 'camp' can be considered held by the player doing the killing so long as they are keeping the placeholders (or the room if there are no placeholders) cleared, within the same zone, do not die or log off"

That means if you wipe at a camp, and I swoop in - you lose and can't say a damn thing about it. Clearly that conflicts with the soft Play Nice Policy. But thats the "rule"...

[loramin]

Originally Posted by JDFriend99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like one of the developers or controllers of the server to get involved in this post and also become involved online and enforcing once again the rules of the server. We are a community of players who are quite frankly Fed Up with allowing players to get away with their version of the rules to maintain a server population. (End my version)

I know this isn't a "demand", but whenever someone is like "I want a staff member to respond to me", they have like a 1 in 3 chance (if that) of some kind soul like Llandris doing so. Not saying it won't happen, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Originally Posted by JDFriend99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have generally understood it to be either camps determined by the zone or buy a static spawn mob, meaning the mob does not run around in path. If the mob roams and paths generally it has been a first to engage.

First off, I think your understanding is close, but a bit off. The rules, as I understand them, are that outdoors you can "camp" (prevent another player from taking) a single spawn point. It doesn't matter whether the mob is static or dynamic: if you kill something, and are waiting at its spawn point when it respawns, no one else can take it. But, like many things here, there are certain special cases (eg. Stormfeather and Quillmane).

You can of course also kill mobs from multiple spawn points, but then if someone else comes along, you get to pick one spawn point to keep. Then, the newcomer gets one spawn point, and any remaining spawn points are FTE (First to Engage: whoever agroes the mob first gets it).

Indoors the rules are basically the same, but the staff might grant "camp" status to multiple spawn points, IF they are in line of sight of each other (and generally only when they're in the same room). However, there's no way for sure to know whether a staff member will grant such a camp until someone petitions. This is by design: the staff specifically doesn't want to be constrained by past rulings (eg. if Bob is acting like a jerk they might not let him camp two mobs, but if Fred was being polite and George the rude player comes along they might grant Fred three mobs that are together).

Now, with that explanation out of the way, it seems to me that the rules on this server are ... not optimized. To document this I started http://wiki.project1999.com/Rules, which details the many, many pages where "the rules" are listed. And that's just the (many copies of the) officially listed rules: there's also one off rulings and rules explanations made by staff members here in the forums (those 1 in 3 cases I mentioned).

Some day (and I have many wiki "irons in the fire", so this day may never come) I hope to combine all of those many rules page into a single page, and then lobby the staff to use it instead of the many disparate rule sources we currently have. But until I (or someone else) does that huge amount of work, and then successfully lobbies the staff, our current system of nine (plus) different rules posts, plus explanation of those rules in random staff posts, is just the way it is here.

[Danth]

Curious: What camps are you doing, on what class, that you're so constantly encountering problems with other players? I ask because your experience is vastly different than my own. I run into camp disputes only a handful of times a year, and mostly they're resolved by working it out with the other party. Are you mostly hanging around in popular and well-traveled areas?

I'm not disputing your own experience so much as I want to know where to avoid.

Danth

[JDFriend99]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Curious: What camps are you doing, on what class, that you're so constantly encountering problems with other players? I ask because your experience is vastly different than my own. I run into camp disputes only a handful of times a year, and mostly they're resolved by working it out with the other party. Are you mostly hanging around in popular and well-traveled areas?

I'm not disputing your own experience so much as I want to know where to avoid.

Danth

Hi most commonly anywhere involving cash in wakening lands. I do a good job of holding down mobs on my necro and can if I saw to it hold down 8-10 at a time. I chose to hold 4-8, to be kind. Or 4'sentients or 6 sentients. The fights come when people jump into camps and start killing because they either just logged in " quote/unquote" from work, or entered zone and didn't bother to CC (camp check) likes been done for 20yrs. Generally we try to send tell and say hey bud this is camped. The fight begins the moment the reply is Huh? Idc! LoL or O.o or w/e.

A simple " oh. I'm sorry I didn't see you there would be OK". But the arrogant assumption they are beyond rules cause Meth told me so makes the fight go on a lot longer then needed until someone dies or the rare chance a guide shows up and enforces a rule..

And yes I mean Meth cause these asshats have to be 8 yrs old or on Meth to not know how to act. Either way needs correction.

It's any damn camp that is challenged by someone that feels they want it and came late. That's all. If a person wanted to stay on a camp for 7 yrs and never sleep they could, it's their right. Not someone else's cause they have a lunch break or aka boxing and have time to camp a mob and want yours. If it's taken, you move the hell on or log off. All there is to it. That is an end all be all of a rule. Constitute if it's up and no one is there killing it or no one replies to Cc or you waited time for them to reply from AFK, you can take it, if it's camped and they are actively killing or talking to you, you cannot.

[kruptcy]

Originally Posted by JDFriend99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hi most commonly anywhere involving cash in wakening lands. I do a good job of holding down mobs on my necro and can if I saw to it hold down 8-10 at a time. I chose to hold 4-8, to be kind. Or 4'sentients or 6 sentients. The fights come when people jump into camps and start killing because they either just logged in " quote/unquote" from work, or entered zone and didn't bother to CC (camp check) likes been done for 20yrs.

I have been on the other side of this, going into a fully spawned sentient camp in WL to have some necro or wizard or druid freak out halfway through my clear of the camp saying they were invis there and I stole their camp.

Also, CCs just give others the opportunity to call camps that they are traveling to and aren't there yet, or that they want to take just because no one called it in the CC.

The rules are pretty clear, you have to keep the mobs down in the camp and engage within a minute or two of pop, and you have to maintain a physical presence at the camp at all times. If you are off selling, or are afk for 15 mins and let the mobs respawn, it's not your camp anymore.

That being said, I usually acquiesce to the raging players that are saying the camp is there just to avoid the drama.

[Tethler]

Originally Posted by kruptcy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rules are pretty clear, you have to keep the mobs down in the camp and engage within a minute or two of pop, and you have to maintain a physical presence at the camp at all times. If you are off selling, or are afk for 15 mins and let the mobs respawn, it's not your camp anymore.

Pretty sure this part is incorrect. You don't need to maintain a physical presence as long as you return in time for respawn. Though you may have more people contesting you if they roll up and you aren't sitting there. If the mobs are down, I'm fairly certain they have no standing to steal your camp.

If you go to sell (without leaving the zone) it doesn't forfeit your camp.

3 things cause loss of camp: Letting respawns sit up, dying, zoning out.


That said, people can be douches and contest you. The camp holder gets first choice of spawn and the challenger gets second. I've never once had this occur with me, but maybe at better cash camps, people actually resort to this type of behavior.

[JDFriend99]

Now, with that explanation out of the way, it seems to me that the rules on this server are ... not optimized. To document this I started http://wiki.project1999.com/Rules, which details the many, many pages where "the rules" are listed. And that's just the (many copies of the) officially listed rules: there's also one off rulings and rules explanations made by staff members here in the forums (those 1 in 3 cases I mentioned).

Some day (and I have many wiki "irons in the fire", so this day may never come) I hope to combine all of those many rules page into a single page, and then lobby the staff to use it instead of the many disparate rule sources we currently have. But until I (or someone else) does that huge amount of work, and then successfully lobbies the staff, our current system of nine (plus) different rules posts, plus explanation of those rules in random staff posts, is just the way it is here.

I'd love to see you or someone get some involvement. Of course this is the end all be all dispute of raid targets and casual plat camps alike. But it's beyond time someone does something about it when it's occurring. No more tisk tisk and they do it again. A warning, and a ban. I once looted a raid item because I was in attendance and told it was OK by my group. 30 min later I had msgs from menden on my apt asking me to give it back and that I was receiving a ban for 7 days via rules are rules. I feel that was garbage because I did show my cause and gave it back, and still remained banned. I think if rules are rules then everyone should get handled the dame and not allow some to go on doing as they wish. If you can draw attention to this everold issue then the server thanks you.

[aaezil]

There currently are too few/insufficient “camp” rules which has led to people making up their own camp rules and or not understanding current rules (dont blame them - most current rulings on different camps like lucan/sf/lodi are scattered in 9 years of forum posts) and thus arguments constantly breaking out + un-needed petitions. In dire need of repair here.

[Ghostly]

Make sure to vote tomorrow!