Serious discussion about Charisma after Charm Nerf

[Fawqueue]

I'm just curious what everyone thinks of stacking Charisma after the charm nerf? It seems to play little part in charm breaks (many reports in the patch thread about having issues even with low-levels, as well as first-hand experience). So is there any reason to waste half the gear slots on CHA gear as opposed to simply stacking INT and STA at this point? It's a little disheartening to waste time and money getting 200+ CHA only to have it seem like it was all pointless. And if that's the case, I almost think the additional mana would help more in the long-run. Any thoughts?

[Trimm]

As a non-enchanter, my only question is how did charm work in Classic? Was it the overpowered-charm-reds-and-yellows-for-full-duration charm like we had, or this new 'nerfed' blues-only-last-about-60-seconds charm we have now?

While I personally think charm was hugely overpowered before, if that's how it was in classic then I guess that's what it should go back to.

[Danth]

My primary recollection with classic Charm was that the overwhelming majority of Enchanters regarded it as worthless/suicidal and rarely/never used it.

Danth

[vageta31]

Charm was never this powerful in classic. Period. On top of that other classes that usually had low charisma and could charm were able to do so based on purely your level vs the mob and it's magic resist. CHA was supposed to be the least important part of the 3 and what made enchanters have a small advantage over others, it was simply made the most important here. Charm may seem stupidly weak now, but it's only because it was so OP before. In classic you could never charm an even con or above and have it for very long. You had to focus on dark blues and debuff them well enough so it'd last. As a Shaman I used to charm Rhinos and such in The Overthere and I remember it lasting for about 2-3 fights max. In fact I never intended on keeping it long, I'd basically let the mob get beat up purposely so that by the time it killed 2 other mobs I could finish it off easily.

It seems a huge number of people rolled chanters to take advantage of the OP charm but are now upset because they don't get to. I agree it sucks, but if you were rolling a chanter just to take advantage of something obviously broken then that was a risk that didn't work out for you. It was quite funny to see how the CHA items that used to sell for so much, drop in price overnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Bakaris]

Originally Posted by vageta31 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm was never this powerful in classic. Period. On top of that other classes that usually had low charisma and could charm were able to do so based on purely your level vs the mob and it's magic resist. CHA was supposed to be the least important part of the 3 and what made enchanters have a small advantage over others, it was simply made the most important here. Charm may seem stupidly weak now, but it's only because it was so OP before. In classic you could never charm an even con or above and have it for very long. You had to focus on dark blues and debuff them well enough so it'd last. As a Shaman I used to charm Rhinos and such in The Overthere and I remember it lasting for about 2-3 fights max. In fact I never intended on keeping it long, I'd basically let the mob get beat up purposely so that by the time it killed 2 other mobs I could finish it off easily.

It seems a huge number of people rolled chanters to take advantage of the OP charm but are now upset because they don't get to. I agree it sucks, but if you were rolling a chanter just to take advantage of something obviously broken then that was a risk that didn't work out for you. It was quite funny to see how the CHA items that used to sell for so much, drop in price overnight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Problem is now, that I cant charm a blue con mob for a whole fight. (lvl 29 enc, 212 cha) And yes I do tash. And agro on enc is just... retarded. Seems broken to me.

[excalis]

I had an Chanter and even with the nerfs on live was very successful with it soloing with charm. I used all of my abilities with nothing geared toward CHA and rocked it.

CHA to me was worthless and just focused on INT, STA. The only main thing I did not like was that you were unable to charm a PC when dueling after a charm change. I soloed my Chanter and most of it was using charm, then the better native pets with AA bouncing between the two depending on the situation.

I did have some good charm breaks that resulted in deaths but once I learned how to use what I had I hardly died, if I did it was my fault for not following my tactics correctly. Research is key, mob HP, resistance, level, etc all fall into place when charming and if they are worth using. Charm to me was just a random deal like invis, just have to be prepared for it when it breaks.

I remember when they nerfed charm and folks were complaining about it, I just said F"it and kept on trucking and proved chanters could solo well. I also used to charm mobs that could not be mezzed as a form of CC, course you can only have one mob at a time charmed but could use it to help DPS, etc. I recall once when raiding Vindi we had an add which I picked up and used to finish off the encounter.

Druid and Chanter combo was awesome when charming using their snare.

I am tempted to drop my necro I am working on and make another chanter, but wanted to try something new this time around. Good luck!

[Salty]

Originally Posted by vageta31 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm was never this powerful in classic.

Charm was sweet up until PoP after they nerfed it because of the chanter soloing in PoV and Halls of Honor.

On combine enchanters would lock down swashbucklers in Timorous deep, Guks in lguk, ilis knights in sebilis, pirates in jaggedpine, or LDCs in solb. You had 3 kinds of enchanters, those that would buff and mez, those that would pull buff and mez, or those that would charm buff mez and maybe pull.

If you rolled around with nothing but scrub chanters than I could see you thinking that way though.

[Finawin]

Originally Posted by Salty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm was sweet up until PoP after they nerfed it because of the chanter soloing in PoV and Halls of Honor.

On combine enchanters would lock down swashbucklers in Timorous deep, Guks in lguk, ilis knights in sebilis, pirates in jaggedpine, or LDCs in solb. You had 3 kinds of enchanters, those that would buff and mez, those that would pull buff and mez, or those that would charm buff mez and maybe pull.

If you rolled around with nothing but scrub chanters than I could see you thinking that way though.

Combine isn't classic.

That whole post is irrelevant.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My primary recollection with classic Charm was that the overwhelming majority of Enchanters regarded it as worthless/suicidal and rarely/never used it.

Danth

You're right, that WAS the overwhelming majority opinion. However, NONE of those enchanters had 255 charisma. I played an enchanter when that mindset changed, and after that charm was used much more often.

Same story with any of a slew of techniques that have been discovered SINCE classic, that allows classes to be played NON-CLASSICALLY by classic rules.

CHA 255 enchanters should be able to viably charm pets. It should always be hit and miss, and a dangerous proposition, but in a somewhat controlled environment, it shouldn't be an issue.

[Ermonican]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CHA 255 enchanters should be able to viably charm pets. It should always be hit and miss, and a dangerous proposition, but in a somewhat controlled environment, it shouldn't be an issue.

Ahh an opinion in regards to how CHA effects charm based on personal experience! This is what I was looking for, thank you Hasbin.

I really want to make a DE chanter, because they are the coolest ever [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] but I dont want to gimp myself with the CHA thing.