Game Mechanics: Belt Haste Not Effecting Backstab (5 logs test study)

bktroost · #1 09-01-2016, 03:01 AM

So after hearing rumors that epic haste does not effect backstab as worn haste should, i went to test some things. It did seem that epic haste was not effecting it as it should so i decided i'd do a study. During that test study i realized that it also seemed that the 27% haste seemed to be doing the same level of effectiveness as the 41% haste. So i took some logs.

HYPOTHESIS ONE: Epic Haste does not effect backstab refresh timer.

TEST ONE: No Epic, No worn haste, no buffs, 5 data sets.
[Thu Sep 01 00:49:10 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!
[Thu Sep 01 00:49:10 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 00:49:20 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

NO EPIC 1= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:54:35 2016] You backstab Manasana for 185 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:54:35 2016] You backstab Manasana for 138 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:54:45 2016] You backstab Manasana for 254 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:54:45 2016] You backstab Manasana for 167 points of damage.

NO EPIC 2= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:55:14 2016] You backstab Manasana for 237 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:55:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 142 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:55:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 137 points of damage.

NO EPIC 3= 11 seconds

+++

[Thu Sep 01 00:57:38 2016] You backstab Manasana for 147 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:57:38 2016] You backstab Manasana for 157 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:57:46 2016] You backstab Manasana for 223 points of damage.

NO EPIC 4= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:43:15 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 01:43:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 146 points of damage.

NO EPIC 5= 10 seconds

Mean: 10.2
Median: 10
Mode: 10

TEST TWO: Epic, No worn haste items, no haste buffs, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:53:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 358 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:53:11 2016] You try to backstab Morvahl, but miss!

[Wed Aug 31 17:53:15 2016] You say, 'NO BELT'

NO BELT 1= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:34:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 127 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:34:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 193 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:35:03 2016] You backstab Manasana for 139 points of damage.

NO BELT 2= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:47:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 178 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:47:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 454 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:47:12 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

NO BELT 3= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:01 2016] You backstab Manasana for 449 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:11 2016] You backstab Manasana for 194 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:12:11 2016] You backstab Manasana for 324 points of damage.

NO BELT 4= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:32 2016] You backstab Manasana for 174 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:42 2016] You backstab Manasana for 468 points of damage.

NO BELT 5= 10 seconds

Mean: 10
Median: 10
Mode: 10

HYPOTHESIS ONE CONCLUSION: The Rogue epic does not effect backstab refresh timers.

HYPOTHESIS TWO: Worn haste items above 27% do not increase backstab refresh ratio.

TEST ONE: Runebranded Girdle (27% worn haste), No haste buffs, no other worn haste, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:51:11 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 372 points of damage.
[Wed Aug 31 17:51:11 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 194 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:51:20 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 303 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:51:33 2016] You say, 'Runebranded Girdle'

RBG 1= 9 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:32:11 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 00:32:19 2016] You backstab Manasana for 123 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:32:27 2016] You say, 'Runebranded Girdle'

RBG 2= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:45:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 174 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:45:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 194 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:46:01 2016] You backstab Manasana for 271 points of damage.

RBG 3= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:06 2016] You backstab Manasana for 186 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:14 2016] You backstab Manasana for 219 points of damage.

RBG 4= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:20:47 2016] You backstab Manasana for 474 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:20:55 2016] You backstab Manasana for 392 points of damage.

RBG 5= 8 seconds
++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:06 2016] You backstab Manasana for 186 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:14 2016] You backstab Manasana for 219 points of damage.

RBG 4= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:27:43 2016] You backstab Manasana for 195 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:27:51 2016] You backstab Manasana for 170 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:27:51 2016] You backstab Manasana for 152 points of damage.

RBG 5 = 8 seconds

Mean: 7.8
Median: 8
Mode: 8

TEST TWO: Renard's Belt of Quickness (41% worn haste), No haste buffs, no other worn haste, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:52:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 301 points of damage.
[Wed Aug 31 17:52:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 185 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:52:08 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 209 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:52:15 2016] You say, 'Renard's Belt of Quickness'

QUICKNESS 1= 7 seconds

++++

Thu Sep 01 00:33:36 2016] You backstab Manasana for 139 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:36 2016] You backstab Manasana for 169 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:44 2016] You backstab Manasana for 166 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:44 2016] You backstab Manasana for 408 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 2= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:43:56 2016] You backstab Manasana for 437 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:43:56 2016] You backstab Manasana for 235 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:44:04 2016] You backstab Manasana for 427 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 3= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:54 2016] You backstab Manasana for 260 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:07:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 158 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:07:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 203 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 4= 8 seconds

[Thu Sep 01 01:13:13 2016] You backstab Manasana for 472 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:13:13 2016] You backstab Manasana for 472 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:13:21 2016] You backstab Manasana for 305 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 5= 8

Mean: 7.8
Median: 8
Mode: 8

HYPOTHESIS TWO CONCLUSION: Worn haste items above 27% do not effect backstab refresh any differently than a 27% worn haste item would.

Auxiliary findings: It appears to me that it is a good idea to have a haste belt as a rogue with our current coding. The increase in backstab damage is roughly 20%. Because rogue damage in general is 40% of the rogues overall dps, there is no better belt outside a worn haste belt--assuming the rogue is not using some other form of worn haste.

**this test did not include stacking worn haste items nor worn haste items in slots other than belt slots.

Erati · #2 09-01-2016, 03:07 AM

what are people getting with CoF?

KorafRN · #3 09-01-2016, 08:39 AM

Your RBG #s were 9s, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8 but you got a mean of 7.8. Did you mix up the numbers between that and renards? Also, one of your data sets for epic times was actually 8s according to your log, but you wrote 10

bktroost · #4 09-01-2016, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KorafRN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your RBG #s were 9s, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8 but you got a mean of 7.8. Did you mix up the numbers between that and renards? Also, one of your data sets for epic times was actually 8s according to your log, but you wrote 10

haha that's what i get for doing this at 2am. Dang, now i cannot edit the post!

Cecily · #5 09-01-2016, 09:25 AM

The only test in which you got a 7 sec delay was w/ 41% belt. That's better than 8 / 9 sec with RBG.

bktroost · #6 09-01-2016, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only test in which you got a 7 sec delay was w/ 41% belt. That's better than 8 / 9 sec with RBG.

But i also got an 8 with no epic and no belt. That shows that there is a window here. It's possible that any belt could get a 7 second. That's why did 5 tests and used a mead median and mode to help see the actual difference.

Edit: It's also possible that this data just shows that we need more data sets to know. The anomalies are the 7 second sky belt and the 8 second no epic, no worn haste. That clearly indicates a window of some sort rather than a set refresh for backstab.

bktroost · #7 09-01-2016, 09:26 AM

Please observe data that i have fixed to accuracy here in this quote.

As i cannot edit the post from my 2 am stupor, I just quoted it here and fixed the mean median and modes as well as used the correct intervals from the logs. Also cleaned up the data, as it clearly looked like i was doing this with sleep deprivation :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by bktroost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So after hearing rumors that epic haste does not effect backstab as worn haste should, i went to test some things. It did seem that epic haste was not effecting it as it should so i decided i'd do a study. During that test study i realized that it also seemed that the 27% haste seemed to be doing the same level of effectiveness as the 41% haste. So i took some logs.

HYPOTHESIS ONE: Epic Haste does not effect backstab refresh timer.

TEST ONE: No Epic, No worn haste, no buffs, 5 data sets.
[Thu Sep 01 00:49:10 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!
[Thu Sep 01 00:49:10 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 00:49:20 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

NO EPIC 1= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:54:35 2016] You backstab Manasana for 185 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:54:35 2016] You backstab Manasana for 138 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:54:45 2016] You backstab Manasana for 254 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:54:45 2016] You backstab Manasana for 167 points of damage.

NO EPIC 2= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:55:14 2016] You backstab Manasana for 237 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:55:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 142 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:55:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 137 points of damage.

NO EPIC 3= 11 seconds

+++

[Thu Sep 01 00:57:38 2016] You backstab Manasana for 147 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:57:38 2016] You backstab Manasana for 157 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:57:46 2016] You backstab Manasana for 223 points of damage.

NO EPIC 4= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:43:15 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 01:43:25 2016] You backstab Manasana for 146 points of damage.

NO EPIC 5= 10 seconds

Mean: 9.8
Median: 10
Mode: 10

TEST TWO: Epic, No worn haste items, no haste buffs, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:53:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 358 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:53:11 2016] You try to backstab Morvahl, but miss!

NO BELT 1= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:34:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 127 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:34:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 193 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:35:03 2016] You backstab Manasana for 139 points of damage.

NO BELT 2= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:47:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 178 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:47:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 454 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:47:12 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

NO BELT 3= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:01 2016] You backstab Manasana for 449 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:11 2016] You backstab Manasana for 194 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:12:11 2016] You backstab Manasana for 324 points of damage.

NO BELT 4= 10 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:32 2016] You backstab Manasana for 174 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:12:42 2016] You backstab Manasana for 468 points of damage.

NO BELT 5= 10 seconds

Mean: 10
Median: 10
Mode: 10

HYPOTHESIS ONE CONCLUSION: The Rogue epic does not effect backstab refresh timers.

HYPOTHESIS TWO: Worn haste items above 27% do not increase backstab refresh ratio.

TEST ONE: Runebranded Girdle (27% worn haste), No haste buffs, no other worn haste, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:51:11 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 372 points of damage.
[Wed Aug 31 17:51:11 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 194 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:51:20 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 303 points of damage.

RBG 1= 9 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:32:11 2016] You try to backstab Manasana, but miss!

[Thu Sep 01 00:32:19 2016] You backstab Manasana for 123 points of damage.

RBG 2= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:45:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 174 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:45:53 2016] You backstab Manasana for 194 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:46:01 2016] You backstab Manasana for 271 points of damage.

RBG 3= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:06 2016] You backstab Manasana for 186 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:14 2016] You backstab Manasana for 219 points of damage.

RBG 4= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:20:47 2016] You backstab Manasana for 474 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:20:55 2016] You backstab Manasana for 392 points of damage.

RBG 5= 8 seconds

++++

Mean: 8.2
Median: 8
Mode: 8

TEST TWO: Renard's Belt of Quickness (41% worn haste), No haste buffs, no other worn haste, 5 data sets.

[Wed Aug 31 17:52:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 301 points of damage.
[Wed Aug 31 17:52:01 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 185 points of damage.

[Wed Aug 31 17:52:08 2016] You backstab Morvahl for 209 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 1= 7 seconds

++++

Thu Sep 01 00:33:36 2016] You backstab Manasana for 139 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:36 2016] You backstab Manasana for 169 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:44 2016] You backstab Manasana for 166 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:33:44 2016] You backstab Manasana for 408 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 2= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 00:43:56 2016] You backstab Manasana for 437 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 00:43:56 2016] You backstab Manasana for 235 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 00:44:04 2016] You backstab Manasana for 427 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 3= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:06:54 2016] You backstab Manasana for 260 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:07:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 158 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:07:02 2016] You backstab Manasana for 203 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 4= 8 seconds

++++

[Thu Sep 01 01:13:13 2016] You backstab Manasana for 472 points of damage.
[Thu Sep 01 01:13:13 2016] You backstab Manasana for 472 points of damage.

[Thu Sep 01 01:13:21 2016] You backstab Manasana for 305 points of damage.

QUICKNESS 5= 8 seconds

Mean: 7.8
Median: 8
Mode: 8

HYPOTHESIS TWO CONCLUSION: Worn haste items above 27% do not effect backstab refresh any differently than a 27% worn haste item would.

Auxiliary findings: It appears to me that it is a good idea to have a haste belt as a rogue with our current coding. The increase in backstab damage is roughly 20%. Because rogue damage in general is 40% of the rogues overall dps, there is no better belt outside a worn haste belt--assuming the rogue is not using some other form of worn haste.

**this test did not include stacking worn haste items nor worn haste items in slots other than belt slots.

Cecily · #8 09-01-2016, 09:32 AM

8 sec with epic strikes me as a glitch in the matrix. That shouldn't be possible with a base refresh. Manasang, bard, probably hasted you for a tick.

Your data doesn't match your conclusion that 41% haste isn't worthwhile. Very very small sample, but this data shows 41% is worth getting.

bktroost · #9 09-01-2016, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

8 sec with epic strikes me as a glitch in the matrix. That shouldn't be possible with a base refresh. Manasang, bard, probably hasted you for a tick.

Your data doesn't match your conclusion that 41% haste isn't worthwhile. Very very small sample, but this data shows 41% is worth getting.

Manasana is a druid. As indicated, there was no additional haste involved other than the data set.

I agree that the data set is too small. I believe that the mean shows that the data has an equivalent mode and median for both worn haste belts. The mean is troubling because the data itself seems to indicate that there is no base refresh time. I'd like to try this again without human error present. Some sort of autofire and about 50 more data sets.

I just don't have the time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, if we were to work from an assumption that 10 seconds is the base refresh with/without epic and a 27% haste reduced the 10 seconds to 8 second average then you would expect a proportional increase from the 41% haste.

KorafRN · #10 09-01-2016, 09:48 AM

There should be plenty of logs in the other bug report thread about haste/backstab cooldown. I'm not sure if anyone really tested an RBG tho.