Shaman: Lets put this Stun vs Regen thing to rest

[gobbosnobbo]

Alright, heres the deal, I'm going to list a bunch of aspects about each, I want others to give some good feedback.

Why? Because this shit needs a last nail in the coffin for good.

First up:

Ogre Frontal Stun Resist -

1) During leveling you can't be stunned while tanking mobs. Debatable less useful at higher levels since if you have 3-4 level 50+ mobs on you, you're probably dead anyway.

2) Great for sitting in a corner and avoiding being interrupted by push mechanics or stun mechanics. However, bash still has an interrupt mechanic even if you don't get stunned, so it can still stop your spell cast.

3) However, even if you are stopped from casting a spell from a bash interrupt (not the stun, the interrupt aspect), you can instantly recast without having to wait.

4) Can move no matter what when facing a mob.

5) Argued that when drawing raid boss agro from a slow, the stun resist can let you get a single heal off, possibly saving your life. However, if you get focused by a boss, you're usually dead anyway.

6) Stun resist is naturally diminished by your slow spell, as the mob doesnt bash as fast when slowed.


Second up:

Troll Regen -

1) Helps when leveling if not twinked, arguably less useful when you get Torpor at max level.

2) Massive regen bonus using innate (18 standing) + fungi (15) + regroth ((15) Total of 48 hp per tick x 6 ticks in a minute for a total of 288 natural hp per minute). Thats 5% of your health every minute if you have a 2,000 hit point pool.

3) Won't save you from being quaded, however, increases overall healing efficiency as you can get more canni's out before using Torpor to top yourself off.

4) Extra regen can help reduce DoT output when casted on you, or recover hp easier on periodic AoE damage from dragon raids.

5) Can completely nullify middling damage from lower level mobs or light hits from higher level mobs.

6) Improves mana efficiency when low by giving more HP to canni off of in emergency situations.

7) Not regen based but you get a snare necklace with a minidot. Nice because root and snares now stack.


Have at it boys, lets end this argument from all aspects, for good.

[Conky]

Seriously we are beating a dead horse here, some people like the regen others like the stun immune...

[Mojo24]

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Originally Posted by Conky [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously we are beating a dead horse here, some people like the regen others like the stun immune...

This.

Trolls are ugly AF. So I went oger on my shaman. No JBB on Iksar was the deal breaker there.

[Troxx]

Ps there are 10 ticks in a minute, not 6

[gobbosnobbo]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ps there are 10 ticks in a minute, not 6

Whoops, my B. Early.

[Troxx]

I can count 0 times thus far on my now 56 shaman where getting stunned made any rea difference in success, failure, or even ease of an encounter. That regen has been with me since day 1 giving me less downtime and more mana. That's (at my level) up to 10 extra hp/tick sitting or 7 tick standing so far ... Otherwise can be considered an extra 3-5 mana a tick permanently over an ogre.

Maybe ogre stun immunity will be worth it at 60 with torpor, but most shamans will never get there.

Old tired argument. I'm a firm advocate of regen. Others like stun immunity. Neither is wrong.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe ogre stun immunity will be worth it at 60 with torpor, but most shamans will never get there.

Nah. I'm a 60 troll with torpor. Only times I would be tanking something and might get stunned:

1) drawing aggro on a raid boss. I'm dead in 2 seconds anyway, stun doesn't matter.

2) fighting named mobs. I don't have trouble fighting named mobs if a) they can be slowed b) they aren't casters. A mob getting a lucky bash off that interrupts torpor isn't a big deal because I'll be able to easily cast torpor again in time to heal myself, or switch to Chloroblast and then torpor. If it's a caster I'll either heal through their nukes and dispells and stuns and be fine or I'll die from nukes/stuns.

3) fighting multiple mobs. If by some miracle they are all in front of me and not behind, and they're not slowed, I'm dead anyway unless I have AE slow memmed. This is the one case where maybe I could channel through a bunch of unslowed hits and get AE slow off whereas a bash would make me dead for sure. This almost never comes up though, and I never have AE slow memmed anyways.

4) soloing dragons in WW. If I die from this it's either from a wandering dragon, or from not being able to out heal the DPS of the AE+melee+canni and eventually running oom. Sure a dragon might get off a lucky bash and interrupt torpor but generally I'm going into this fight with enough HP that I start off torpor heals at 70% and if I get interrupted I'll just try again.

Whereas all of the situations above, passive regen helps either a little or a lot. Those long 20 minute soloing dragons in WW fights? Passive regen helps A LOT. Fighting those 1 million hp raid mobs, or buffing an entire raid? Passive regen helps mana regen so you can spend less time torporing yourself and more time cannibalizing. Fighting named mobs? Passive regen helps a little, mostly in recovery time between fights allowing you to engage to the named mob faster before respawns.

This is also why you'll never sell your fungi on your shaman. Even after I get a vindi VP (which is, IMO, best in slot for shaman BP) I will still keep my fungi around for cases where I'm not tanking or taking AE damage. Lvl 60 troll/iksar regen + fungi + regrowth is just a stupid amount of regen.

Still though, I laugh at the premise of this thread, people are going to pick what they like the most and thus this argument will never die. The differences between the benefits of passive regen and stun immunity aren't game breaking, they won't determine whether or not you make it into a raid guild, groups won't care, the only person that really cares is yourself, so just play what you want. Unless you're a necro, in which case pick Iksar you dumb fucker.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Pyrocat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nah. I'm a 60 troll with torpor. Only times I would be tanking something and might get stunned:

3) fighting multiple mobs. If by some miracle they are all in front of me and not behind, and they're not slowed, I'm dead anyway unless I have AE slow memmed. This is the one case where maybe I could channel through a bunch of unslowed hits and get AE slow off whereas a bash would make me dead for sure. This almost never comes up though, and I never have AE slow memmed anyways.

Ideally you'd have some root nets ready to go to handle multiple mobs like that. FSI is hardly helpful when you're using instacast nets. The only situation that I ever thought to myself "FSI would be nice to have right now" is when powerleveling. I'd pull 6-8 kobolds in solb and keep them unslowed so ds could do as much damage as possible. In that case, I kind of wanted to be able to avoid bash interrupts, but it still wasn't a make-or-break skill.

[Samoht]

OP seems seriously confused about what FSI does and seems to give it credit for a lot of things it does not do.

[gobbosnobbo]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP seems seriously confused about what FSI does and seems to give it credit for a lot of things it does not do.

Please elaborate